The .9mm Browning

Lilarty

Verified Military
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
29
Location
Australia
Can't say I've actually had my hands on one of these yet, but I have to say - they seem rather, erm...'outdated' or highly exaggerated. I remember we had a demo during basic and it was 100% inaccurate from a distance of roughly 15m.

Any thoughts from those here that have used this particular side-arm?
 

Mac_NZ

Stitch Bitch
Verified Military
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
1,597
Location
Christchurch
I've fired maybe 500rds through one, it worked but it wasn't an intuitive pistol to use for me . For its time it was probably very slick but we dumped it for the P226 in the 1990s and I know the Brit SOF have switched to that as well. Aus SOF are using Glocks or HKs now aren't they?
 

Lilarty

Verified Military
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
29
Location
Australia
I have no idea, mate - but I stole this from Wikipedia...

Basic patrol weapons are the M4 Carbine (designated M4A5 in Australia) with M203A1 40mm grenade launcher and F89 Minimi Para light machine gun. Another popular patrol weapon is the 7.62mm SR-25 rifle. The main pistol used in the CT role is the Heckler & Koch USP, in wartime roles however it is usually the ADF's standard issue defence sidearm, the Browning Hi-Power that operators will carry. Many other weapon systems are used as the mission dictates. Operators are multi-skilled and all are parachute-qualified, but they specialise in either Air, Water or Vehicle-mounted insertion methods.
 

Diamondback 2/2

Infantry
Verified Military
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
6,848
Location
Tejas
SSMP
Military Mentor
Browning Hi Power (in good condition) and in the right persons hands is a very accurate pistol. It's not the most accurate, not the best shooting pistol for me, but I sure would shoot someone with it if need be.
 

SpitfireV

Strike first, strike hard, no mercy!
Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Messages
5,276
Location
New Zealand
I think it was only very recently UK SOF gave it up? RNZAF had it till about 10 years too IIRC, I vaguely remember a former coworker saying he had to qualify on it.
 

Pistol_Pete

Verified SOF
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
45
Location
West of Charlotte, NC
I have always been of the school of thought that a weapon is as accurate as the operator as far as putting hits in the kill zone, apples to apples and assuming that the barrel isn't shot out or the sights not knocked out of where they should be. Reliability is a whole 'nother matter between manufacturers of course. BHP's have a decent rep and they used to cover them in the Q-course among others. I probably would buy one if the price was a "need the money bad" sell, to add to my collection, but it wouldn't be my first choice. I prefer Glock, Springfield, and Sig pistols personally. But whatever stops the bad guy with a well placed shot - that's the best pistol in the world at that moment.
 

Crusader74

Verified Military
Verified Military
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
2,759
AUSSF are using the HK USP.. I've fired a few hundred rds from a Browning or BAP as it was called before we changed to the HK USP.. Ours were 40 years old but you could get a fairly decent group..
 

policemedic

Verified SWAT
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,716
Location
A galaxy far, far away
Never fired .9mm before, that's a mighty tiny bullet! ;)

x SF med said:
But you get a one million round magazine.... cool...:confused:

You guys beat me to it. Damn.

I agree with pete. The Browning High Power is a fine pistol, and if it is was inaccurate I would suspect it needed some form of maintenance. Of course, the results the OP saw could have been due to operator error as well.

I've fired them; I like them. But then again I prefer SA pistols and the BHP is a classic example.
 

policemedic

Verified SWAT
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,716
Location
A galaxy far, far away
Can't say I've actually had my hands on one of these yet, but I have to say - they seem rather, erm...'outdated' or highly exaggerated. I remember we had a demo during basic and it was 100% inaccurate from a distance of roughly 15m.

Any thoughts from those here that have used this particular side-arm?

In what way do you think the Browning is outdated?

And for clarity...are you saying at 15m the shooter didn't hit the target even once (100% inaccurate)?
 

HOLLiS

Verified Military
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
1,509
Location
Where it is wet, wet, and more wet
The gun is just a inanimate object, it is when it is in the hands of a person who is a craftsman that makes it excel. If is a very fine pistol

BTW, for a pistol 15M is along ways, unless you are playing HALO (1).
 

HOLLiS

Verified Military
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
1,509
Location
Where it is wet, wet, and more wet
But you get a one million round magazine.... cool...:confused:

I got about 300 rounds through one in the Q course when I was a Bravo - not great, not horrible, but the one I was firing was bit ragged....

When I went through training on the 1911, we would pick them up and shake them. The one that rattle less was the one to use. I think the ones we had were original issue for Belleau Woods.

Mr. Troll, reminds me, Bob (you met him) has a very funny story about a 1911. He was a young Sgt and complained about his 1911 being all over the place. The Gunny, took the pistol, gather the rest of the troops around. The Gunny pronounced that this young Sgt thought this pistol to be defective. The Gunny pick of the pistol and holding it upside down with his little finger on the trigger put all of the bullets in the 10 ring. " Yep, defective pistol"
 

Lilarty

Verified Military
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
29
Location
Australia
In what way do you think the Browning is outdated?

And for clarity...are you saying at 15m the shooter didn't hit the target even once (100% inaccurate)?
The in-service Browning issued by the ADF has been in service since 1935. The operator was Infantry for 20+ years; so I'm assuming he is an experienced operator.

Yes. From 15m (calm conditions, little to no wind) he failed to hit the target. He came close but couldn't make a grouping around the target.
 

policemedic

Verified SWAT
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,716
Location
A galaxy far, far away
The in-service Browning issued by the ADF has been in service since 1935. The operator was Infantry for 20+ years; so I'm assuming he is an experienced operator.

Yes. From 15m (calm conditions, little to no wind) he failed to hit the target. He came close but couldn't make a grouping around the target.

Simply being in service for a long time doesn't make a pistol outdated...I carry a 1911, and that design is older. In fact, until the ACME disintegration pistol becomes available, you couldn't get me to switch.
slub3g


There are upgrades available that make the P-35 more user friendly, but it's a solid design.

If a good shooter couldn't put rounds on steel at 15m, then the gun definitely has issues. Do you know what the outcome was with that gun? I'm sure the shooter marched it right back to the armorer...
 

Mac_NZ

Stitch Bitch
Verified Military
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
1,597
Location
Christchurch
Because its a service pistol it has probably been treated like shit, serviced minimally and no one really knows what problems to look for that need to be fixed. A lot of our P226 are in a very sad state because of the types they are issued to. When I used to get a new one onto the 502 it would go straight to an armourer I knew who actually did his job properly and normally need a 1/2 dozen parts replaced.

Doc, is your .45 stock or has it been worked on?
 

Lilarty

Verified Military
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
29
Location
Australia
Simply being in service for a long time doesn't make a pistol outdated...I carry a 1911, and that design is older. In fact, until the ACME disintegration pistol becomes available, you couldn't get me to switch.
slub3g


There are upgrades available that make the P-35 more user friendly, but it's a solid design.

If a good shooter couldn't put rounds on steel at 15m, then the gun definitely has issues. Do you know what the outcome was with that gun? I'm sure the shooter marched it right back to the armorer...
It's not the age of the Pistol that has me concerned. It's the fact that at a minimum thousands of grunts have given them a workout beyond repair. Yet the Army continues to use them without sufficient maintenance. I believe the operator to be more than qualified on that Pistol; and the results of his shoot had me concerned. It's like the bore had be worn beyond smooth and each shot went down-left to the POA.

I asked him about the Pistol and its condition and I believe his words were something like "It's the Army..."

It might just be the fact it is an in-service Pistol. I'm sure it's been used more time than a Blonde's legs have met.
 

KBar666

Unverified
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
150
Not sure exactlly what you're looking at it for but a custom built one is great....Check out Heirloom Percision
 

AWP

Formerly Known as Freefalling
SOF Support
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
16,444
Location
Not Afghanistan
That's the issue. And it's a big one. Proper maintenance is essential to reliable functioning, especially in John Browning designs.

Whoa...slow down cowboy...you have to properly maintain a weapon for it to work? Seriously? Dude, I shoot, cleaning's for women.
 
Top