Case Study: Tabs and Tyrants

Well, cant say that wasn't telegraphed for anyone who's (sadly) be in long enough to have seen it happen first hand. Could almost do a whole case study on the fallout and guilt that goes with something like this.

I've had two instances where a soldier reached out to one of their NCOs, didn't get a response, and ended it.

The first time, the soldier called their NCO, but their NCO wasn't able to talk because her child was throwing a temper tantrum; they made plans to have a movie marathon the next day, but the soldier hung themselves that night.

In the other instance, the soldier called their NCO on a saturday evening, only for their NCO to say "I'm at the bar, you can talk to me on Monday." The soldier jumped out a window not long after (from what I was told of the event by the NCO they called).

5 minutes with someone can be all it takes sometimes to steer them away from the edge like that.
 
And then it all made sense.
I disagree that it all makes sense,



One of the techs carried a clear plastic evidence bag. In it was a familiar-looking silver Leatherman-style multi-tool. The blade was extended and was missing a piece near the tip. It was also covered in blood.

Faith stopped the lab tech that was carrying the bag with the Leatherman. “Hey, I’m Lieutenant Faint, and I’m pretty sure that’s mine,” he said.

“Not anymore sir,” the tech responded. “Now it’s evidence.” That sounded ominous. Faith was annoyed, but there wasn’t a lot he could do. “OK, fine. I’m here to do the inventory.” he asked.
Come on Faith. Are you really that dense that seeing your missing multitool covered with blood in an evidence bag would garner no other reaction than "annoyed"?


As he approached the bathroom, Faith noticed that Delta Company’s First Sergeant was there, on his knees, helping to clean up the blood. “Hey First Sergeant,” Faith said, as cheerfully as he could.
Argh! The young LT gets a "fail" in situational awareness here.

To be clear, the study itself was easily one of my most enjoyable to participate in, it was very very will written @Marauder06 . But after investing all of this time there is just too much left too much unsaid:

- Did Thigpen kill himself? (with a multitool?)
- Did Thigpen snap and kill someone else with the Multitool?
- Did someone kill Thigpen with the multitool?

At a minimum we deserve some type of wrap up to Thigpen's story - unless we are just supposed to assume that he slit his wrists with Faith's blade, and then what type of message is he sending the LT?

Could almost do a whole case study on the fallout and guilt that goes with something like this.

I'd have to believe that something like that would fuck with his head for the rest of his life.

Well done, Mara. You really had me invested on this one.
 
I cared a lot about my Soldiers, have really good relationships with many of them still to this day. I couldn't imagine what is going through his mind right now, he's delirious because it's like 0300. One thing I hated about how the MPs worked these days was if a Soldier was arrested with a DUI you'd have to pick them up the same day they were charged. For whatever reason it was always unit release in my time.

This goes back to Knox, I had been the PL three weeks at the time maybe less. I went to the MP station three separate times. One was DV (a female soldier was beating her Infantry husband)-10AM Saturday Morning, One was a DUI-was called literally at 330AM. Then late in the afternoon that Sunday a Soldier was a witness to DV and wasn't cooperating with the MPs, of course they threatened him with shit and said they'd charge him as an accessory or somewhat.

Right before I got to Bliss the CSM who'd been fooling around with a female Soldier took his own life. ODd on anti-freeze. Apparently was top performer in the BDE. Same CSM that vouched for the Soldier that was in my PLT that had a DUI.

A bit after I went to DIV HQ, the SQDN had an NCO commit suicide. Just promoted to Sergeant, about 18 mos earlier he and his wife had a shouting match and the MPs were called. He was flagged for awhile under the Lautenberg amendment even though there were no charges and he'd gone through all of the diversion counseling. Not exactly sure what the issue was, but once the flag was initiated by the CMD team it took help from DIV S1 to lift. This was a pain in the ass every month when went through Flags and USR. It wasn't fixed until after I executed handover as S1.

Some things are hard to understand, this one[Thigpen]? Well I guess there were plenty of signals.
 
I don't think anything could have been done differently to save Thigpen from himself. I think he would have killed himself before they sent him home at any point.


I think that if even if they tried to get him into ASAP, the end result would have been the same.


Thigpen was on drugs. He had a bad attitude. He was given extra help and was the subject of genuine concern by Leaders. He was under emotionally and intellectually developed and stunted in every way. He should have not made it passed MEPS, but he did.

This is not his current leaders fault. They worried and took action daily about him, and treated him humanely.

And now, Thigpen's cleaned his room, stolen a knife with sentimental value, and attacked the person (Lt. Faith) who went the extra mile for him, a second time. Like, when he bitch slapped Spc. Stringer, the closest thing to a friend he had, and everyone has literally blood on their hands. I feel bad for his leaders and squad.

Yes, it's sad that Thigpen had no friends, but that is not the only sad thing that happens in the military.

Instead of no friends, it could have been Thigpen was unable to learn a language and failing. He could have ruined his life by choosing the language he did. Or, he could signed up for a job and realized during AIT it was a horrible fit for his personality, or he could have had to do 1.5 years of language school as a native speaker, because he fell asleep during the DLPT, two days out of Basic Training and didn't wake up until it was over and rocked out on paper. Or he could have fallen in love with a ROK Soldier and been pressured into two abortions after being an MST victim to a supervisor, and having to testify.

It may sound super motivated, but the United States is the most powerful military in the world and it's a demanding job, across all ranks and every environment.

Suicide is a problem that affects everyone and there are all kinds of reasons to feel sad or bad for people, but any way you slice it, suicide on active duty is the wrong answer.

Just because Thigpen didn't access formal suicide resources, his leaders responded to him and led him, and I do not believe left him behind. They tried to help him- they intervened on his behalf. There were multiple interventions. I just don't think anything could have saved him. They were not telling him to kill himself. They were not harassing or abusing him. They were leading him.

When Lt. Faith tried to talk to him, Thigpen refused to engage.

After you do the right thing, sometimes you can't save someone from themselves.

Had they tried to chapter him earlier, he probably would have done the same thing then, he did now. If he had been placed on suicide watch, he would have likely become extremely suicidal and maybe homicidal.

I have two examples that come to mind, and I'm trying to shorten them to post.

One has a good outcome, the other has a less good outcome, but even the bad is not as bad as the outcome for Thigpen's leaders.

They experience may moral injury because of this, and by all accounts, Thigpen has a bonafide personality disorder. They may believe they left Thigpen behind, when actually, he made choices.

Early in the case study I was someone who said to overtrain the military into him, but I changed my mind. I feel stupid I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

I knew someone like Thigpen. He shouldn't have been let through MEPS. He didn't kill himself. He made it to becoming an NCO, and then went to sleep on Sentry duty during war and people died. It makes me sick. He rolled out his mat, the green thin one, that he should not have had with him in the first place, laid down, and went to sleep during a twelve hour period during OEF near the end of the earlier years. Makes me fucking sick still.

Everyone thought he was basically a good enough guy, just extremely slow. Someone who slipped through. Slipped through becoming an NCO. Had his clearance temporarily suspended when he married a a person with mental health problems. He got it back. Then, He got put on guard duty. He went to sleep. People died. One of THE WORST things anyone who saw, ever saw. It's taken me many years to even consider mentioning. Scarring.

He is a shit bag, a buddy fucker, and needs to die, just like Thigpen. He should have killed himself.

I'll tell you what happened to him. It makes me sick to write about him 16 years later.

I never saw him again. I'm not saying he was killed or experienced harm. I'm saying, those around him, had to live with what happened, keep going, and he was immediately taken away, and besides a mutual hatred of him, and someone filling out a 4187 requesting UCMJ specifically for the death penalty, multiple times, nobody ever spoke of him and I personally never saw him again.

And, like Thigpen, months earlier, he did respond to good leaders.

I thought he had to be good at something, we just had to find it. It wasn't even my lane. He was 2 ranks above me.

And still, for some reason, I thought maybe if Thigpen was reached in the beginning, he could have been made into an okay soldier. That was stupid.

Thigpen had a bonafide personality disorder, he shouldn't have been let through MEPS, and while it's very sad that death occurred, I think it's for the best because he would have probably gotten others killed. It's not just cliche bullshit.

It's not his leader's fault. They tried daily with him. I hope they don't carry his actions with them, just because they care.

I believe they did everything they could.

Edited: to correct broken English- removed "?" from "I'll tell you what happened to him?"
 
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Using the Lt's knife was a bullshit move.

I was working with a suicidal soldier who did kill herself.
Prior to killing herself she set a shi train in motion that burned those who did everything possible to be nice to her, including me.
I am very selective who I help now because of her, Soldiers are getting fucked because she burned those willing to help.
Pigpen was no different.
 
"The Rest of the Story" Part 1

This case study is loosely based on real events and was inspired by two different conversations we had here on ShadowSpear back in 2017. One was an argument about whether an Infantry officer “had to be” Ranger-qualified to be successful (and the relative merits of the school), and one on bullying, I think it was specifically about the idiot NCO in the 82nd who hit one of this troops in the chest with a large wooden mallet during a promotion ceremony.

The lessons I intended to impart in this story include the following:

-the importance of the officer/NCO relationship

-the importance and value of deliberate periodic counseling

-positive and negative aspects of unit culture, such as the use (and abuse) of nicknames

-the need to adjust leadership style to the needs and abilities of different troops

-not everyone makes it as a Soldier, despite your best efforts

-despite personal setbacks (e.g. failure at Ranger School), it’s still possible to be a good leader if you’re competent, genuine, and caring

-risk/reward of doing the right thing

-perceptions of people based on what they wear on their uniform

-dangers of social isolation

-the threat of military suicide

-you often get only one chance to do the right thing
 
Using the Lt's knife was a bullshit move.

I was working with a suicidal soldier who did kill herself.
Prior to killing herself she set a shi train in motion that burned those who did everything possible to be nice to her, including me.
I am very selective who I help now because of her, Soldiers are getting fucked because she burned those willing to help.
Pigpen was no different.

I agree. I meant to put into the story that Thigpen ended up on suicide watch and all all of his own weapons/knives taken, I think that would have made more sense than him swiping Faith's.

Then again, maybe seeing Faith's was the final trigger.

What do you think makes more sense?
 
How does a suicide watch work in the US Army? Here you'd be put into a cell/locked hospital room, given clothes to wear and you ain't going anywhere.

So it depends on the severity. If someone made ideations or maybe we might suspect they'll do something stupid, the practice back in the day was to confine them to the barracks and make them physically check in from like 0600 to 2300. If we were really worried, they got a cot in the staff duty office. If we were really-really worried, they got involuntarily taken to the hospital.
 
"The Rest of the Story" Part 2

OK, so this is the part where I separate fact from fiction. To begin with, this story is semi-autobiographical. Some of the events really happened, but most of the story is either completely invented or greatly exaggerated for dramatic effect. Much of the Sergeant Ellery character is accurate. Most of the rest, especially the portrayal of LT Faith, is mostly made up.

All of the names are pseudos, or are real names of people who were in my platoon but are combined with multiple personalities into one character. And of course some of the characters in the story, like Sergeant Manners, are completely fabricated. Some of the names have significance and some don’t.

Here’s a picture of the real “Sergeant First Class Ellery” (right) and me at Fort Campbell back in… 1996 or so when we were in the 101st Airborne Division. This is right after a rehearsal for a division change of command, which is why we had rifles with bayonets. This was well before the era of camera phones, I didn’t take a lot of pictures back then. This might be the only picture I have of the two of us from when we worked together. This man changed my life, and set the standard in my mind for every other NCO I ever worked with.

1587354937050.png

I came into the Army under the “branch detail” program and was an infantry platoon leader in the mid-1990s. I did show up without a Ranger Tab, which was a big deal, but my first battalion commander also didn’t have a tab. He later went on to become a three-star general, so…

In fact, I worked for three infantry officers who went on to wear multiple stars. Including LTG Bolger, there were LTG Russel Honore and GEN Robert Brown.

Anyway, because I was non-Ranger qualified, they would not assign me to a “line” platoon in a rifle company, but instead put me in D Co, which at the time was the heavy weapons company. This was actually a blessing, as it was a “specialty” platoon that was normally a second assignment after successful time on the line. But it meant that I was riding instead of walking when we went to the field, which was often; it meant I had few Soldiers to supervise, and because of the technical aspects involved, 11H troops tended to be slightly more intellectual than the average 11B, which suited me because I consider myself a slightly intellectual guy. And, I got to have Sergeant Ellery as my platoon sergeant.

I did complete the Mortar Leader Course at Fort Benning prior to reporting to Fort Campbell, and I did ask to be a Mortar Platoon Leader. But they already had a guy in that job when I showed up, so I went to D Co.

I did run into one of my classmates from Georgia Military College who I know got commissioned, but he was in our battalion as a Spec-4. I was sure there was some sordid story there, but it was simply a legit dual-component thing; he wanted to be active but he held a Reserve commission and couldn’t get an active one, so he enlisted. It’s a weird thing, but it happens. When I was in JSOC, the command sergeant major was a captain in the Reserves. He liked to joke that he was the oldest captain in the Army… and he probably was.

We did have a “Pigpen”-like character in one of the other platoons, and I did walk up on some of the Soldiers in that platoon scrubbing Private Pigpen down with green scrub pads, Comet, and the long brushes we used to clean the mud off of our trucks, but it was after I was in the unit for several months, not on the first day I was there. I broke it up and sent everyone on their way. Nobody threatened or intimidated me over it. And I definitely didn’t take Pigpen into our platoon.

The other incident with Thigpen and 2nd Platoon involving the platoon sergeant simply never happened, that was purely for dramatic effect. I’ve never been treated like that by Soldiers or NCOs. In fact, I’ve only had three people want to physically fight me over the course of my entire career, and they’ve all been officers. Although two of them were platoon leaders with me in D 1/327…

The “blood pinning” thing that SFC Ellery did is accurate, and he did promote me to 1LT. Back in the mid-90s there was a crackdown on hazing because so many people were doing so much stupid shit, but blood pinning was still pretty widespread. Many years later I returned to Fort Campbell when I was assigned to 5th Group and then the 160th SOAR. I made MAJ when I was in the 160th and MSG(R) Ellery was still in the area and was able to come to my promotion party, which meant a lot to me.

My then-girlfriend, now-wife did do the rope climb thing, and she did get hit in the face playing basketball with the platoon. But it was much less dramatic than what is portrayed in the story.

I was, and still am, very good at Hearts and Spades and I would play regularly with my troops in the van going back and forth to our White Cycle taskings and when we were deployed to Egypt for six month. I am a much more gracious loser than winner when it comes to cards, and was well known in the platoon for my shit-talking. It was a source of great frustration for my troops that the LT was good at “Joe” cards games, and I loved it.

Many years after the events in this story, I did have a Soldier try to commit suicide with a Leatherman. When I was a company commander in the Second Infantry Division in Korea, we had a female soldier who self-recommended for mental health due to suicidal thoughts. We sent her down to the psych ward in Seoul, where the psych docs said that the Soldier was in desperate need of an immediate chapter. I was sad to hear that because she was a good Soldier. But hey, they’re the docs, not me. I started the separation paperwork, only to have the doc call me a couple days later like “hey, she’s fine now, come get your girl.” We went down and got her, but I thought the whole thing was sketchy. I thought I should go through with the chapter… At any rate, I restricted her access to firearms (not a big deal, we were an MI company anyway) and had the 1SG and her platoon sergeant toss her room for any weapons and anything she might be able to use to hurt herself. After a long talk with her, she convinced me to put a hold on her paperwork, that she was getting better and needed to stay in the Army. I felt like we should separate her, but the docs recommend I let her stay. A day or two later, she bought a Leatherman at the little PX we had and cut herself up with it. She called our chaplain before she bled out (I found out later that he made anti-suicide pacts with all of the troubled troops, definitely worked in this case). That was the last time that I let “the experts” over-rule my professional judgment.

The “birthday beatdown” thing happened largely as portrayed in the story, although it was a different platoon sergeant (I went through five platoon sergeants, including Ellery twice). I don’t think Sergeant Ellery would have allowed those kinds of shenanigans. And of course Thigpen wasn’t involved.

For the record, I’ve never been in a bar fight.

I don’t remember anyone in the battalion killing themselves while I was there. As far as I know Private Thigpen left the unit alive… although he probably did catch a chapter, or at least a bar to re-enlistment. Or maybe he turned out to be a good troop, I don’t know. I don’t even remember his real name.

I was a platoon leader in the same platoon for over two years. It was the mid-90s so the deployment opportunities were limited. We did deploy to Egypt for six months as part of the Multinational Force and Observers mission, which was awesome. When we returned I was made the Battalion S1—a captain’s position—of an Infantry battalion… as a tabless 1LT. You can imagine how that want.

But that is a story for another day.

THE END.

…really.
 
Truth be told, I was a tabless rifle platoon leader in God's own airborne battalion in Italy 40+ years ago...I got caught up in an end of the fiscal year situation where there weren't enough Ranger slots to go around and I was a reserve commissioned officer...did alright, probably wound up in Italy because I was an SF qualified master parachutist. I went to an SF battalion in Germany as a detachment XO where it didn't matter until a group commander came along who said all detachment commanders were to be Ranger tabbed...in a story too bizarre to recount, the battalion picked up twelve Ranger school slots and I got one of them...I graduated from the course and when I got back, there were guys commanding detachments that weren't SF qualified, much less Ranger tabbed...different Army back then, but I did get a detachment and life went on from there...as far as the worth of Ranger school for a new lieutenant....in my mind the jury is out on that...
 
"The Rest of the Story" Part 1

This case study is loosely based on real events and was inspired by two different conversations we had here on ShadowSpear back in 2017. One was an argument about whether an Infantry officer “had to be” Ranger-qualified to be successful (and the relative merits of the school), and one on bullying, I think it was specifically about the idiot NCO in the 82nd who hit one of this troops in the chest with a large wooden mallet during a promotion ceremony.

The lessons I intended to impart in this story include the following:

-the importance of the officer/NCO relationship

-the importance and value of deliberate periodic counseling

-positive and negative aspects of unit culture, such as the use (and abuse) of nicknames

-the need to adjust leadership style to the needs and abilities of different troops

-not everyone makes it as a Soldier, despite your best efforts

-despite personal setbacks (e.g. failure at Ranger School), it’s still possible to be a good leader if you’re competent, genuine, and caring

-risk/reward of doing the right thing

-perceptions of people based on what they wear on their uniform

-dangers of social isolation

-the threat of military suicide

-you often get only one chance to do the right thing


Working for the military as a civilian, it's incredible how different the culture is for DOD civilians vs active duty counterparts. That could just be in my career field, but even at my last unit where there was a very strong push to make all of us feel a part of the team, I'm amazed at how many people treat it as just any old job. They show up at 630 and are out the door at 3. They don't want that "family" feel that being part of an infantry platoon gives.

As evidenced, constant counseling is good for growth and yet we civilians don't really do that either. We have our performance evaluations but nobody really puts much into them.

My career field is also comprised mostly of non-Veterans. I have found that the military is the best at approaching people with different leadership styles to see what works best for that subordinate. Because most people in my career field typically start working for the Government just after graduating from college, they don't have broad experience working for a bunch of different supervisors to build this approach.
 
Working for the military as a civilian, it's incredible how different the culture is for DOD civilians vs active duty counterparts. That could just be in my career field, but even at my last unit where there was a very strong push to make all of us feel a part of the team, I'm amazed at how many people treat it as just any old job. They show up at 630 and are out the door at 3. They don't want that "family" feel that being part of an infantry platoon gives.
I never considered DOD civilians to be part of the team. I don't remember ever being impressed by a single one. Most of them seemed more interested in promotions, kissing butts, or their departure time from the office. Some of them were truly a'holes who thought that because they were a retired MGySgt or GS-13 their shit didn't stink.
 
I never considered DOD civilians to be part of the team. I don't remember ever being impressed by a single one. Most of them seemed more interested in promotions, kissing butts, or their departure time from the office. Some of them were truly a'holes who thought that because they were a retired MGySgt or GS-13 their shit didn't stink.

It's interesting that you have never considered civilians part of the team. The Marine Corps calls their civilians "Civilian Marines" and even makes them stand in formation. The only time I dealt with civilians while I was AD was at CIF, which we all know is the devil. Now that I'm a GS employee, I have only experienced that entitlement from one person and they were a GS14 who most people did not care for personally or professionally. On the flip side, I have a few cell phone numbers in my personal cell phone for SES's, all of whom I have met in a professional setting and I have never seen them come across as holier than thou. I've witnessed civilians give up a big chunk of their life deploying to shit holes all over the world to go wherever their command needs them in support of a mission. I'm obviously bias, but civilians should absolutely be a part of the team.


ETA: New Employees
 
It's interesting that you have never considered civilians part of the team. The Marine Corps calls their civilians "Civilian Marines" and even makes them stand in formation. The only time I dealt with civilians while I was AD was at CIF, which we all know is the devil. Now that I'm a GS employee, I have only experienced that entitlement from one person and they were a GS14 who most people did not care for personally or professionally. On the flip side, I have a few cell phone numbers in my personal cell phone for SES's, all of whom I have met in a professional setting and I have never seen them come across as holier than thou. I've witnessed civilians give up a big chunk of their life deploying to shit holes all over the world to go wherever their command needs them in support of a mission. I'm obviously bias, but civilians should absolutely be a part of the team.

ETA: New Employees
"The Marine Corps" calls them "civilian Marines", but the Marines don't. You and I both know the difference. ;-) Most of the civilian employees that made a big stink about being "civilian Marines" wouldn't survive three hours at PI.

And we obviously grew up in different locations, as I've never seen a "civilian Marine" in formation unless they were getting an award.

I'm glad you've had a different experience with DOD civilians. You obviously aren't as jaded as I am.
 
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