Devildoc
Verified Military
That was one theory, and goes in hand with the need to secure their southern border. The Soviets were legitimately afraid that the US could have influence and divert attention away from Europe.
The Afghanistan and Pakistan Thread
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That was one theory, and goes in hand with the need to secure their southern border. The Soviets were legitimately afraid that the US could have influence and divert attention away from Europe.
Not a theory, Doc. Shoring up a pro-Communist regime in Kabul was central to achieving the other concerns you mention, a secure S. border and countering US influence.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Let me rephrase. That was one arm of a multi arm approach. What is interesting, and with 20/20 hindsight, the Soviets were extremely anxious about us nosing around in the region. for decades they totally misread our intentions, and they thought that we wanted to establish a foothold in Afghanistan when all we wanted to do is normalize relations. Of course, if normalizing relations meant making the Soviets uncomfortable then......
Pick up The Great Gamble by Gregory Feifer. It goes into detail on Politburo meetings and Soviet motivations. Yes, the Soviet's "intervention" driven by a desire to prop up the Communist regime because they feared the Afghan Muj would topple the gov't; one way or another, they feared, the Americans would gain a foothold.
Go back to the 50's and 60's, Afghanistan was rather moden, even Westernized in the cities. The West spent hundreds of millions on the country, prompting the Sovs to do the same. We already had good relations with Pakistan and the Sovs viewed us creeping closer to their borders. The notion fo a warm water port is a hundred year old goal turned into a modern myth; those dreams didn't exist in the 21st century.
The Soviets started prepping the ground as early as the spring of 1979. They went with a small SOF footprint that escalated into a massive conventional commitment. Sound familiar?
Go back to the 50's and 60's, Afghanistan was rather moden, even Westernized in the cities. The West spent hundreds of millions on the country, prompting the Sovs to do the same. We already had good relations with Pakistan and the Sovs viewed us creeping closer to their borders. The notion fo a warm water port is a hundred year old goal turned into a modern myth; those dreams didn't exist in the 21st century.
The Soviets started prepping the ground as early as the spring of 1979. They went with a small SOF footprint that escalated into a massive conventional commitment. Sound familiar?
SpongeBob*24
Verified Military
When I got back from deployment, my great-grandmother wanted to know if Kandahar was still as pretty as she remembered.
Apparently she and my great grandfather had taken a trip in 1974 and visited Mumbai, Karachi, Kandahar, and Tehran.
She said Kandahar and Tehran were very similar to the USA at the time. She was amazed the women wore pants and there were disco bars.
Never heard of her.....
She was in Vietnam.
Started with Green Beret advisors engaging in combat only when fired upon (the original ROE, hahaha)...four years later it was an industry. Funny how this shit keeps repeating itself...
Devildoc
Verified Military
Seeing the city of Kabul from TV Hill, you can see the remnants of a once beautiful city. I'd love to go back one day and visit without worry of being blown up. But I doubt it will happen in my lifetime.
If I go back to Afghanistan it is with a "00" number and license...
So...a high school dropout with JEM suicide-vehicle bombed an Indian security convoy and killed at least 46. Since JEM is a creation of ISI, maybe India should nuke the fuck out of Pakistan and wipe the whole fuckin abortion off the map.
R.Caerbannog
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Cotton cultivation starts in two weeks for them. Seed potatoes are currently in cultivation as well as sugarcane. Rice gets planted in two and a half months. India won't have to use nukes if the Pakistan is starving and broke.So...a high school dropout with JEM suicide-vehicle bombed an Indian security convoy and killed at least 46. Since JEM is a creation of ISI, maybe India should nuke the fuck out of Pakistan and wipe the whole fuckin abortion off the map.
The thought of a country-wide famine in PK really stirs my loins. I like the cut of your jib, sir.
Brill
SOF Support
...but Pakistan will. Desperation makes people do weird things sometimes.
R.Caerbannog
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Maybe, but if we look at PK's cultural hierarchy I'm pretty sure that they're going to have their hands full keeping their starving peasants in line. Greater civilizations have been bent low due to famine and natural disaster. Archaeological records show that it's usually the lower castes that suffer the most during times of famine. There is a reason human sacrifice and inter-tribal warfare was so big in Meso America.
Nothing keeps the plebs in line like a major war against a hated enemy.
I deeply dislike Pakistan but we need them right now, unfortunately. I like India more, and we need them as well. If they go to war, our major land lifeline into Afghanistan will be at risk (Pakistan), and a major potential adversary against China (India) will be focusing its whole attention west instead of where we want it, north.
I deeply dislike Pakistan but we need them right now, unfortunately. I like India more, and we need them as well. If they go to war, our major land lifeline into Afghanistan will be at risk (Pakistan), and a major potential adversary against China (India) will be focusing its whole attention west instead of where we want it, north.
R.Caerbannog
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Just to add to the last post. On
Sorry for the add on: I think if China wants to keep growing and keep it's citizens fed and happy (to a degree,) they'll have no choice but to turn to the nearest large scale AG markets.
Very true, hatred will unite people. This is just me thinking aloud, but if India can make up the agricultural shortfalls of a decimated PK it's likely that the PRC will cut a deal.
Sorry for the add on: I think if China wants to keep growing and keep it's citizens fed and happy (to a degree,) they'll have no choice but to turn to the nearest large scale AG markets.
R.Caerbannog
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Sorry for the shitty editing. Also wanted to include that I've been toying with something one of my professors said. What I remember was something akin to, "advanced civilizations have gotten steam rolled by lesser ones". It's made me wonder if PK is using human biology as a counter to our more advanced technology.
From what I'm seeing, PK has done very well to leverage it's population and land to counter our more advanced forces and technologies. The way PK generates it's wealth, to it's meddling in world affairs, seems to hinge on an expendable population and diminishing terrestrial resources. Like, their soil should be dead from extensive use and yet they turn a profit off agricultural goods.
From what I'm seeing, PK has done very well to leverage it's population and land to counter our more advanced forces and technologies. The way PK generates it's wealth, to it's meddling in world affairs, seems to hinge on an expendable population and diminishing terrestrial resources. Like, their soil should be dead from extensive use and yet they turn a profit off agricultural goods.
Would it go nuclear?
China suffers tremendously in a PK/India nuke exchange as most of the fallout will land in Chins (with the Korea's and Japan being the next two major victims)
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