The China Thread (Threat)

[Devildoc]

I hate our military leadership. Feckless cunts.

Military brass have recommended against shooting down an alleged Chinese spy balloon flying over the US — for now

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Hey look everyone … literally everyone …. We don’t have to fly a jet over sensitive areas to invade the US, we can take a page from China’s book and float all kinds of shit throughout their atmosphere and they don’t care!

I really really try not to get so angry about this shit anymore, but this is like an episode from a bad movie; I keep waiting for the poison gas to release.

See also, Japan 1945
In 1945, a Japanese Balloon Bomb Killed Six Americans, Five of Them Children, in Oregon

 

[Topkick]

The main concern is controlling the crash site. Apparenty this thing is huge and would stay in the air for awhile after being punctured. They claim there is no way to know where it would crash. If we can lift and move artillery pieces with aircraft, seems there should be a way to control the landing of a balloon.

 

[amlove21]

1, not hard to shoot this balloon down and make it happen in a place without civilians. We have dropped somewhere in the range of 340K bombs/munitions since the start of GWOT, and I just can't remember the last time we took the potential of civilian casualties into account as much as we are here.

2, don't you think you'd want to get that balloon's payload and exploit it? You know, just like basic military tactics? Interrogate the device, what they are collecting, what tech they're using?

GEN Mi Lee loses again.

 

[Marauder06]

 

[AWP]

Stepping back a bit, as noted the Japanese have used balloons to penetrate US airspace. The US has used balloons to do...high altitude stuff.

The US is incapable of confronting a threat itself is capable of generating? A capability that goes back to the mid 1940's? At at time when reasonably large portions of the US are discussing how the Chinese own the US government?

But there's nothing to worry about?

Let's say there isn't a larger play here, no conspiracy or anything. Take that completely off the table. We're supposed to be okay with a "low tech" spy apparatus traversing the US and our country's response is "civilian casualties."? The "damage" over sparsely populated regions of the US is enough to prevent a kinetic response?

What?

 

[AWP]

1, not hard to shoot this balloon down and make it happen in a place without civilians. We have dropped somewhere in the range of 340K bombs/munitions since the start of GWOT, and I just can't remember the last time we took the potential of civilian casualties into account as much as we are here.

2, don't you think you'd want to get that balloon's payload and exploit it? You know, just like basic military tactics? Interrogate the device, what they are collecting, what tech they're using?

GEN Mi Lee loses again.

How awesome is one's post for me to use this... abortion (if they're allowed) of an emoji?

Add a beer to your tab when you come to Orlando, good sir.

 

[Topkick]

don't you think you'd want to get that balloon's payload and exploit it? You know, just like basic military tactics? Interrogate the device, what they are collecting, what tech they're using?

No way this thing should get away without a complete, hands on investigation.

 

[Marauder06]

No way this thing should get away without a complete, hands on investigation.

The Chinese crashed into one of our spy planes operating in international airspace and then seized the plane and its passengers after it made an emergency landing, and we aren't doing anything about a fucking balloon over our home soil?

We sent a groveling apology to the Chinese about the whole thing too.

Yes, I'm still mad about it. ;)

Hainan Island incident - Wikipedia(

 

[Ooh-Rah]

There are times (not many, but some) when I really miss Trump.

 

[Devildoc]

The Chinese crashed into one of our spy planes operating in international airspace and then seized the plane and its passengers after it made an emergency landing, and we aren't doing anything about a fucking balloon over our home soil?

We sent a groveling apology to the Chinese about the whole thing too.

Yes, I'm still mad about it. ;)

Hainan Island incident - Wikipedia(

We almost always act like the victim in an abusive relationship. Pisses me the hell off. Per esteemed colleague @AWP , "We're supposed to be okay with a "low tech" spy apparatus traversing the US and our country's response is "civilian casualties."? The "damage" over sparsely populated regions of the US is enough to prevent a kinetic response?"

I mean, what the actual fuck makes this OK??

 

[Marauder06]

We almost always act like the victim in an abusive relationship. Pisses me the hell off. Per esteemed colleague @AWP , "We're supposed to be okay with a "low tech" spy apparatus traversing the US and our country's response is "civilian casualties."? The "damage" over sparsely populated regions of the US is enough to prevent a kinetic response?"

I mean, what the actual fuck makes this OK??

There are two scenarios in which this makes sense to me from a NATSEC perspective:

1) we are exploiting the ever-loving SHIT out of the balloon right now, and what we gain from that is worth more to us than what the Chinese are getting from us.

2) we do similar things with the Chinese, and if we start shooting down their shit, they will do it to ours, and again, the current tradeoff is in our favor.

... of course there are any number of other things that I don't know about and/or didn't consider.

However, whatever is going on is making us look clownish right now.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

1) we are exploiting the ever-loving SHIT out of the balloon right now, and what we gain from that is worth more to us than what the Chinese are getting from us.

I have gotten too jaded over the years to believe that we are capable of being this strategic anymore.

 

[Cookie_]

There are two scenarios in which this makes sense to me from a NATSEC perspective:

1) we are exploiting the ever-loving SHIT out of the balloon right now, and what we gain from that is worth more to us than what the Chinese are getting from us.

2) we do similar things with the Chinese, and if we start shooting down their shit, they will do it to ours, and again, the current tradeoff is in our favor.

... of course there are any number of other things that I don't know about and/or didn't consider.

However, whatever is going on is making us look clownish right now.

I'd be happy if those were the actual reasons for the current COA being taken.

I just don't have faith in the SecDef and Chairman that there's an actual reason to have not taken action yet.

 

[amlove21]

There are times (not many, but some) when I really miss Trump.

Favorite meme du jour- "Stop saying Trump would have shot this down, that's not true. China would have never sent this balloon with Trump in office."

 

[BloodStripe]

How high up is the balloon? They typically are between 80 and 120k feet. For those wanting to shoot it down, what would you use to hit that distance? Not sure our lasers can do damage at that range. Those things are also massive and would probably take a bit to bring down. NASAs are about the size of 160 Goodyear blimps.

 

[JedisonsDad]

How high up is the balloon? They typically are between 80 and 120k feet. For those wanting to shoot it down, what would you use to hit that distance? Not sure our lasers can do damage at that range. Those things are also massive and would probably take a bit to bring down. NASAs are about the size of 160 Goodyear blimps.

I’ve seen between 50,000 and 67,000.

I’m curious why it’s not reporting location like the project Loon balloons do.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

China is saying it is “of civilian nature” and was force off route.

微博

I feel like I’ve seen this movie before….it will come to me.

I knew it would come to me; seems everything comes back to Star Trek these days…

Why not shoot it down and prove that China flew a maneuverable military type balloon into our airspace.

Cause then what?

 

[BloodStripe]

How high up is the balloon? They typically are between 80 and 120k feet. For those wanting to shoot it down, what would you use to hit that distance? Not sure our lasers can do damage at that range. Those things are also massive and would probably take a bit to bring down. NASAs are about the size of 160 Goodyear blimps.

To add more info: Our jets typically have a max operating altitude around 65 to 70k feet. So you still need to shoot up another 10 to 30k feet. Not a pilot or a WEPS so I won’t pretend to know how hard that is, but it sounds hard.

I’ve seen between 50,000 and 67,000.

I’m curious why it’s not reporting location like the project Loon balloons do.

Because it’s a spy balloon, regardless of what China says. No different than a ship turning off ASI when they don’t want to be tracked.

 

[JedisonsDad]

Because it’s a spy balloon, regardless of what China says. No different than a ship turning off ASI when they don’t want to be tracked.

Right on the nose.