The Trump Presidency 2.0

[R.Caerbannog]

It's also in our interests to severely limit the F-1s that are approved for those schools (especially MIT and Cal Tech).

Yeah, we need to look at the F-1 program all over again. The number of foreign exchange students here in the US, that have values contrary to ours is insane. Especially those from Islamic cultures, India/SEA, and communist countries like China. It's not everyone, but the behavior and attitude of some of these people is really really bad.

With some of these students, I wonder how soon they'll go into white collar organized crime if/when they leave. It also doesn't help that colleges are addicted to the money these foreign exchange kids bring.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Yeah. An Army infantry officer should have a Ranger tab. Ideally before their first unit. For sure before they make Captain. I’m also semi kidding. It is fun to call the SecDef a tabless bitch.

Damnit, I knew this scenario sounded familiar. Suddenly this 2017 @Marauder06 case study resonates different!

Case Study: Tabs and Tyrants​

I should add, in classic case study fashion, this story began in 2017 and was not wrapped up until 2020. (He was busy!)

When Second Lieutenant Scott Faith arrived at the battalion headquarters of First Battalion, First Brigade, 101st Airborne Division, he carried a folder with his medical and dental records, his inprocessing checklist, and ten copies of his orders. He also carried with him the weight of something he had never experienced before: failure.

Up to this point, Faith had been relatively successful in the things he thought were important in life. He got good grades in high school, coasted through college and ROTC, and got he wanted when it came to commissioning and his Army branch. He never lacked for friends… or girlfriends for that matter. It seemed that he was winning in every aspect of his life. But then, something happened. More specifically, “Ranger School” happened.

Ranger School would be tough, he knew, but it never occurred to him that he wouldn’t come out the other side “tabbed.” Yet here he was, at his first unit, a failure. A non-tabbed Infantry officer. A “tabless bitch.” At the Infantry Officers Basic Course, he was constantly reminded that this was literally the worst thing that could happen to a young lieutenant. “Better to catch a DUI charge en route than to show up at your first unit without a tab,” one of the noncommissioned officers trainers at the Basic Course told him. And Faith believed him. Still believed him. Ever since he got to Fort Campbell, he felt people were watching him, judging him. Because they probably were.

 

[Marauder06]

I guess someone should have told this guy that not having a Ranger tab means you'll never be successful as an Infantry officer in the modern Army. That tab TOTALLY means more than his DSSM and BSM(V). And, you know, all of the stuff he did outside of an Army school.

And earning a tab or a trident or achieving any other high-level achievement totally means a guy is a good dude and would never, under any circumstances, do anything morally questionable like... I don't know... allegedly commit war crimes in Afghanistan.



I'm not trying to make it sound like having a Ranger Tab isn't important, especially for an Infantry officer. It absolutely is. But it's not a litmus test of moral character in the long term, nor is it necessary for success in higher office. Something like a quarter of all SECDEFs never served in the military at all.

This conversation is just as dumb as the "what constitutes SOF" one we always seem to have here.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

<feeling like I just opened an icky can of worms>

 

[Marauder06]

<feeling like I just opened an icky can of worms>

lol

Not at all brother, I'm not emotional about it. I just think there are far better things we can focus on when it comes to shortcomings of our political class than this.

I mean, long before he was SECDEF he accidentally hit an acquaintance of mine with a mis-thrown hatchet. This makes him clearly disqualified to be SECDEF based on hand-eye coordination alone. ;)

Then again maybe if he had earned his Ranger Tab he would have acquired better axe-throwing skills...

 

[BlackSmokeRisinG]

Coming from a non-airborne (read leg) infantry battalion I can vouch for many Inf. O's not being tabbed. Maybe about half were. In the 82nd and 101st almost all were. Hell, in 07' I met a group of 82nd Stryker dudes bringing the child of one of MAS's main security guys to Ibn Sina hospital in Baghdad. Every dude above E-5 had a tab.

20 y/o me would agree with he tab thing mattering, but being exposed to all sorts of tabbed and non-tabbed Inf. O's, without a doubt I can say plenty of Ranger tabbed O's were clowns and nobody I would want to follow anywhere.

Why didn't Trump get ahold of one of those "smart" flag officers he me flying into Iraq? We'll never know...

 

[AWP]

"Ranger School is a leadership school."
"So, uh, we're commissioning people who don't have enough leadership ability and need even more leadership training? For that we're giving them a tab?"

 

[Devildoc]

I guess someone should have told this guy that not having a Ranger tab means you'll never be successful as an Infantry officer in the modern Army. That tab TOTALLY means more than his DSSM and BSM(V). And, you know, all of the stuff he did outside of an Army school.

Around 2006 I was asked to do med for a Marine unit that was using part of Ft. Bragg's spaces and did some training with the 82nd. We weren't out long, maybe three days. The last day we cleaned up and went on base. We were chatting and one of the soldiers looked at a young Marine, maybe E-3, said something about his CIB, pointed at the Marine and laughed that they didn't have cool badges. The Marine didn't hesitate, pointed at the patch that said "US Marine" and said, this, my three combat tours, Navy Comm with a 'V' and purple heart are good enough for me. I don't think I had laughed so hard.

Getting back to today, I get that Vance had a drinking problem. So do I on any given weekend (I semi jest). But he also got help and I believe he's been off the sauce. That's good enough for me.

The other thing I would point out, we've had SECDEFs with drinking problems, adulterers, and one committed suicide. It's easy enough to find. So to single him out because of this is politics.

I will add Hegseth pushed this out a couple days ago: Secretary Hegseth's Message to the Force

If I wasn't an old, washed-up, out-of-shape, cancer-ridden sack of goo, I would join.

 

[Marauder06]

I would work for Hegseth, if asked. I would have worked for SEC Austin, if asked. I voted for Trump and I support the direction his administration is taking America. But I believe that putting America first means putting my preferences second, and will do the best I can in whatever job I have as long as I'm in the government. If the Democrats take back the White House next election cycle, which right now I think is extremely unlikely, I would work for whomever they install as SECDEF. I want our country to be successful.

 

[TLDR20]

Damnit, I knew this scenario sounded familiar. Suddenly this 2017 @Marauder06 case study resonates different!

Case Study: Tabs and Tyrants​

I should add, in classic case study fashion, this story began in 2017 and was not wrapped up until 2020. (He was busy!)

When Second Lieutenant Scott Faith arrived at the battalion headquarters of First Battalion, First Brigade, 101st Airborne Division, he carried a folder with his medical and dental records, his inprocessing checklist, and ten copies of his orders. He also carried with him the weight of something he had never experienced before: failure.

Up to this point, Faith had been relatively successful in the things he thought were important in life. He got good grades in high school, coasted through college and ROTC, and got he wanted when it came to commissioning and his Army branch. He never lacked for friends… or girlfriends for that matter. It seemed that he was winning in every aspect of his life. But then, something happened. More specifically, “Ranger School” happened.

Ranger School would be tough, he knew, but it never occurred to him that he wouldn’t come out the other side “tabbed.” Yet here he was, at his first unit, a failure. A non-tabbed Infantry officer. A “tabless bitch.” At the Infantry Officers Basic Course, he was constantly reminded that this was literally the worst thing that could happen to a young lieutenant. “Better to catch a DUI charge en route than to show up at your first unit without a tab,” one of the noncommissioned officers trainers at the Basic Course told him. And Faith believed him. Still believed him. Ever since he got to Fort Campbell, he felt people were watching him, judging him. Because they probably were.

Difference is Mara’s case study officer probably wasn’t a career infantry officer, and from the first pages I read prioritized leading men. As was pointed out in that thread, the unwritten rule is tabs.

 

[TLDR20]

lol

Not at all brother, I'm not emotional about it. I just think there are far better things we can focus on when it comes to shortcomings of our political class than this.

I mean, long before he was SECDEF he accidentally hit an acquaintance of mine with a mis-thrown hatchet. This makes him clearly disqualified to be SECDEF based on hand-eye coordination alone. ;)

Then again maybe if he had earned his Ranger Tab he would have acquired better axe-throwing skills...

I am in agreement with you. I was mostly just trying to bring some military banter to what I’ve considered an absurd discussion about this guy. He is woefully unqualified for the position.

Of course there are many tremendous officers without Ranger tabs. Bravery, moral courage, and many other things have nothing to do with what is on someone’s left shoulder.

ETA: most of the contrarian statements I’ve seen focus on his tattoos and stuff, meanwhile he has led two non profits into the ground, and that is the sum of his organizational leadership above a platoon level. Being a Fox News host is not a good preparatory position for being SecDef. Again I sincerely hope I am wrong.

 

[Marauder06]

I am in agreement with you. I was mostly just trying to bring some military banter to what I’ve considered an absurd discussion about this guy. He is woefully unqualified for the position.

Of course there are many tremendous officers without Ranger tabs. Bravery, moral courage, and many other things have nothing to do with what is on someone’s left shoulder.

ETA: most of the contrarian statements I’ve seen focus on his tattoos and stuff, meanwhile he has led two non profits into the ground, and that is the sum of his organizational leadership above a platoon level. Being a Fox News host is not a good preparatory position for being SecDef. Again I sincerely hope I am wrong.

I hope he's ready. I know he's been in the public sphere and the spotlight more than most, certainly more than me, but lots of people are going to be gunning for him and hoping that he fails. I'm not one of them, but acknowledge it's a possibility.

 

[Devildoc]

I am in agreement with you. I was mostly just trying to bring some military banter to what I’ve considered an absurd discussion about this guy. He is woefully unqualified for the position.

ETA: most of the contrarian statements I’ve seen focus on his tattoos and stuff, meanwhile he has led two non profits into the ground, and that is the sum of his organizational leadership above a platoon level. Being a Fox News host is not a good preparatory position for being SecDef. Again I sincerely hope I am wrong.

My issue is the hypocrisy of the left (this time; it'll be the GOP next time) of what constitutes "qualified." I am certain there are people more qualified but POTUS doesn't want them. According to what's on paper, he is qualified. So there should be no more dialogue.

Given how many well-heeled, highly-educated CEOs and FOGOs who've been utter failures as SECDEF so we can't use CEO or whatever as a standard of competence. A few SECDEFs were nothing more than representatives or senators, with no military or "large organization" experience who had a mixed bag of results. A lot of them left the DOD in worse shape than they found it.

There's a reason SECDEF has been called "the graveyard of political ambitions". Edited, a lot of people have pre-destined the DoD for failure because of him, and even for just that reason I hope he is wildly successful. There's just no correlation between experience and outcome in that job.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I guess someone should have told this guy that not having a Ranger tab means you'll never be successful as an Infantry officer in the modern Army. That tab TOTALLY means more than his DSSM and BSM(V). And, you know, all of the stuff he did outside of an Army school.

And earning a tab or a trident or achieving any other high-level achievement totally means a guy is a good dude and would never, under any circumstances, do anything morally questionable like... I don't know... allegedly commit war crimes in Afghanistan.



I'm not trying to make it sound like having a Ranger Tab isn't important, especially for an Infantry officer. It absolutely is. But it's not a litmus test of moral character in the long term, nor is it necessary for success in higher office. Something like a quarter of all SECDEFs never served in the military at all.

This conversation is just as dumb as the "what constitutes SOF" one we always seem to have here.

"Having a tab will set you so much apart from your peers". My ACOM and MQ (roommate from when we were at Benning) who is now an S1 and probably the best Brigade S1 in Hawai'i.

I've met so many dudes in the Army that the only thing they accomplished was having a tab and it put them in a fraternity and provided them protection. And you had BCs and BDE COs who would pick because a dude had a tab instead of if that guys platoon or company scored higher at Gunnery and Live Fire...

I'm unsure which was more pervasive, the Regimental Protection Agency or the WPPA...

I am in agreement with you. I was mostly just trying to bring some military banter to what I’ve considered an absurd discussion about this guy. He is woefully unqualified for the position.

Of course there are many tremendous officers without Ranger tabs. Bravery, moral courage, and many other things have nothing to do with what is on someone’s left shoulder.

ETA: most of the contrarian statements I’ve seen focus on his tattoos and stuff, meanwhile he has led two non profits into the ground, and that is the sum of his organizational leadership above a platoon level. Being a Fox News host is not a good preparatory position for being SecDef. Again I sincerely hope I am wrong.

There are many reasons why these positions don't have "qualifications". Will he carry out the strategy of the duly elected president? Yes or No answer please. That is the only qualification.

 

[AWP]

The Federal Return to Office EO is about to cost us a ton of money if cooler heads don't prevail. Organizations within the DoD are already pricing what it would take to lease office space. Like I posted earlier, some orgs do not have enough seats, so if you want everyone in "the" office you're going to have to find seats which won't be cheap.

It makes for a great sound bite though. "Raaarrrrr, back to the office! We just DOGE'd the fuck out of things and they are better! Efficient! Saving money!"

 

[Devildoc]

A short little article "Secretaries of Defense: Why Most Have Failed." Just for context. Nothing we've seen or been through has been new.

 

[Cookie_]

I've met so many dudes in the Army that the only thing they accomplished was having a tab and it put them in a fraternity and provided them protection. And you had BCs and BDE COs who would pick because a dude had a tab instead of if that guys platoon or company scored higher at Gunnery and Live Fire...

I'm unsure which was more pervasive, the Regimental Protection Agency or the WPPA...

The irony of a "return to meritocracy" is it means a return to this style of Army being common. Tons of dudes who are asskissers will get jobs over dudes who've got better resumes.
If only we've had recent decades of history showing how bad that works out.

The Federal Return to Office EO is about to cost us a ton of money if cooler heads don't prevail. Organizations within the DoD are already pricing what it would take to lease office space. Like I posted earlier, some orgs do not have enough seats, so if you want everyone in "the" office you're going to have to find seats which won't be cheap.

It makes for a great sound bite though. "Raaarrrrr, back to the office! We just DOGE'd the fuck out of things and they are better! Efficient! Saving money!"

It's the whole point. Musk thinks People will resign, which will say money.
Like you said, it's a great soundbite if you don't look at the numbers. You could have half of the federal workforce quit and you'd only save 2% of the budget.

 

[DA SWO]

@AWP surprised you haven't commented on Guard guys going to Ranger School. The Guard views it as an enhancement, not a requirement.
My state, Michigan, rarely sent anyone to Ranger School. LRS Company had to fight for slots, and it was a requirement for those in leadership positions.
We have a member (who can out himself if he chooses) who was offered Airborne after AIT, but his state said no.
So SecDef being tabless doesn't offend me.

 

[ThunderHorse]

The irony of a "return to meritocracy" is it means a return to this style of Army being common. Tons of dudes who are asskissers will get jobs over dudes who've got better resumes.
If only we've had recent decades of history showing how bad that works out.

As much are the Army has tried to become more "corporate" with the marketplace nonsense I'm quite unsure it has done that since the marketplace does interviews and the BCs can now not accept you. By Name Request has not gone away. I think the previous system was better than making things more corporate. The issue is the culture around both to be honest, you can change the system but if the institutional culture says "well he's a regiment guy he's obviously a better combat leader than the dude who's been on heavy platforms his whole career" when it comes to selecting BDE COs for Armor units...

So I've seen it both ways and generally don't agree with the changes that have happened on the officer side. Big Army pushed more dudes down the throats of BCs when captain assignments were blind. Major was a lot less blind. But now even first assignments are not even blind. I HAVE NO IDEA how enlisted side of this works.

So I think the asskissers have maintained their hand.

 

[Topkick]

Coming from a non-airborne (read leg) infantry battalion I can vouch for many Inf. O's not being tabbed. Maybe about half were. In the 82nd and 101st almost all were. Hell, in 07' I met a group of 82nd Stryker dudes bringing the child of one of MAS's main security guys to Ibn Sina hospital in Baghdad. Every dude above E-5 had a tab.

20 y/o me would agree with he tab thing mattering, but being exposed to all sorts of tabbed and non-tabbed Inf. O's, without a doubt I can say plenty of Ranger tabbed O's were clowns and nobody I would want to follow anywhere.

Why didn't Trump get ahold of one of those "smart" flag officers he me flying into Iraq? We'll never know...

Most tabbed assclowns I experienced were 2lt's straight from the schoolhouse with no PL experience.