The Trump Presidency 2.0
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Florida173
SOF Support
And by warrantless, you're just avoiding the administrative I-200/I-205 warrants that ICE probably used here?
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Pretty clear that neither of us have been rolled up in a slum raid.
However, based on the article 37 arrests, they clearly had cause and warrants to raid the building. If the local police had been doing their jobs, perhaps things would be cleaned up but Illinois is a sanctuary state. It was interesting in the article it mentioned Venezuelans. There's numerous articles about Venezuelan gangs taking control of entire apartment complexes in the Denver area. (yes I know, this is in Chicago, but you get the point I'm trying to make). Unlawful detention is obviously something that is more than a few hours outside your own building and the being released once the raid is over.
Devildoc
Verified Military
True story. The night before the US invaded Panama a friend's brother was managing a Dominos near the the Pentagon, called my buddy saying "something weird is going on". My friend was a Ranger, told me later a half hour later his battalion was headed to the airport. I understand this goes back at least Grenada.
It happened the night they bombed Iran, I'm pretty sure I posted that account.
Cafeteria is civilian and closes, keeping it open would be no different than ordering pizza.
I'd rather have pizza.
I'd rather have pizza.
Blizzard
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The fact this discussion is taking place is the real important thing, right?
TLDR20
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I actually don’t think this is on Trump. I think that ICE are poorly trained, and have even less of a grasp of constitutional matters than normal police. I think Kristi Noem is incompetent.
If y’all are good with the feds coming to your home without a warrant and holding you without probable cause just say so. That is what they have been doing, and are continuing to do. A lot of “Molon Labe”, and “come and take it” and “don’t tread on me” seems to have gone by the wayside.
Explain please. These warrants are for entire buildings, including individual domiciles? How do these warrants allow them to detain US citizens? Enter homes independent of criminal activity? I’m not being facetious. Please tell me how this is ok, without either being like “fuck immigrants” or “what about 30 years ago?” I’d like to know how this is cool today. I’m all about a logical legal reason to be detained by immigration and customs in my home, I’m totally not going to be all molon labe on anyone.
An I-200 does not grant the ability to enter a domicile nor does a 205 that I can see.
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Florida173
SOF Support
My understanding is that they did an administrative warrant, as DHS does, and leveraged the CPD judicial warrant to gain entry. Whatever the circumstances that allowed them enter additional units will come down to legal system and lawyers to figure out, but could probably have been considered exigent or plain view. Regarding detaining US citizens? you don't need a warrant to detain someone, just reasonable suspicion. Plus, this was operation had five agencies with ICE, FBI, ATF, CBP, and local CPD.. Who are you even upset about here? Do you believe ICE unilaterally raided the dilapidated building?
also.. fuck illegal immigrants.. no one is saying fuck immigrants
TLDR20
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Fuck illegals yeah. Thanks for boiling that down.
You do not need a warrant to detain someone. However at 3 hours of detainment for an immigration action, it is unreasonable. This was a targeted immigration enforcement per the FBI, they were supporting with bodies, not investigating a crime.
My point remains, you are cool with being detained, from inside your domicile for 3 hours by immigration without a warrant. Yes or no?
Florida173
SOF Support
I think legally they can detain up to 48 hours. Was it only 3? the poor squatters!
TLDR20
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Cool. So you are cool with US citizens being detained for 48 hours with no suspicion of a crime, just being in their homes. Cool cool cool.
Florida173
SOF Support
You don't think there was suspicion of a crime? How many were arrested?
TLDR20
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What were the warrants for(there weren’t any for multiple domiciles), like you posted likely I-200 warrants. The people who are not illegals did nothing illegal to warrant prosecution, or interaction with the police in any way. They were in their homes.
You should not have to fear government intrusion into your home in the USA. Apparently you are cool with it.
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This is the part of this whole thread that frustrates me. I find it difficult to believe that if Kamala had won and the ATF was conducting unwarranted door-to-door searches for unregistered firearms in states that require registration, the reactions here would be as unconcerned as they seem.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
The building was full of drugs and illegas, it was a slum. If Chicago was keen on making the city safe for normies that building would have been rolled ages ago. You know, broken windows policing that that the Dems got famous for that led to their resurgence through the 2000s while Republicans stayed on their hands.
Then the war beganneth I suppose. There is a huge difference between the two posits here. Someone detained for three hours during an operation and unlawful entry into my home. Many of us talk a big game, but it would probably be a no-knock raid like what happened to Roger Stone and we'd all be shot before we woke up. That would be Kamala's America.
Yeah and if my grandmother had two wheels and handlebars, she’d be a bicycle, but she's not, she's dead. RIP Grandma Kilroy.
False equivalency/counterfactual aside- bro did you miss the past ten years? We don’t need to talk about some weird hypothetical- the ATF was 100% going door to door, violating the Constitution, asking about guns. Conservatives were 100% denied their first amendment rights when the Biden admin colluded with Google, Meta, and X. People were held for 3 years IN JAIL for J6 with no trial. General Mike Flynn was spied on, entrapped, unjustly prosecuted, and debanked for the crime of aligning with Trump. Trump's laywers were charged with RICO.
I could go on and on. I want everyone to notice a thing with me. In every thread where we talk politics, culture, LE etc etc etc, I have to read drivel from dorks about "Oh No LoOk At WhAt CoUlD pOsSiBlY hApPeN iT's CoMiNg..." and that thing never comes true. Not once.
What happened to President Musk and his technocracy? What happened to the Handmaid's Tale in real life after Roe? Where are those 300M dead kids Bono said were already a reality, thanks to USAID getting cut? I thought Trump was gonna take all your rights, where'd that land? How about that '28 election you said wasn't gonna happen? It's all hypothetical bullshit to fearmonger.
Meanwhile, guys like me will say, "Ok, that *could* happen, just like we could find out the Earth really is flat, but I am talking about things that have already happened and continue to happen, and we have proof. Mountains of proof and admissions and arrests and convictions. This has been happening, in one direction, for more than a decade, and you wanna talk about 'well Trump is PLANNING this or he's GOING to do that'." But that's as far as the conversation goes- because it's retarded.
Just miss me, man. I started counting on September 10th when this game changed. So don't tell me about hypotheticals. We aren't talking about the right having "the potential for WAY more violence", we are talking about a nationwide leftist terrorist attacks happening every week, all while being told just to think what could (possibly) be happening (maybe) that could lead to a catastrophic outcome (long shot).
Cute, huh?
I would bet I can't find a single instance of you being cool with illegal searches or seizures. You've been very vocal about that when it fits your narrative and bias. My issue is that you're completely silent when it doesn't. You were the BIGGEST cheerleader in Trump's "lawfare arc"- tell you what, I will bet you MY paycheck you can't find a single post of your own where you defend Trump on the FBI raid on Mar-A-Lago the same way you attack this admin over ICE and federal LEO on immigration. That was a pretty spurious search and seizure, yeah? On a President and his family? We should be able to find you just losing your shit over it, right?
We won't.
You can go gaslight somewhere else. Just own it, it's the pretending that's annoying.
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I appreciate and respect your passion and historical knowledge; the point I’m trying to make (and apparently poorly), is that if ‘we’ do not stop engaging in ‘whataboutism’ where will we land? It just seems so counterproductive .
To add: By “we” I mean both sides of the aisle.
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