Queeg
SOF Support
What happened to Conduct After Capture?
Two U.S. Navy boats with 10 sailors on board taken into Iranian custody
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
- Start date
What happened to Conduct After Capture?
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That has been the question bothering me from the beginning. I think back to the stories of John McCain, all of the Vietnam era stories of resistance to the enemy...and this officer videoed an Apology for "getting lost" ?
I had a gung-ho Gunny who made us memorize this - especially #3 - so to see these Sailors on their knees, hands behind their heads, and then eating and drinking with the Iranians... - it was just weird, and uncomfortable.
Knowing no more than what has been reported, it sure seems like whomever was in command of those boats gave up on the Code of Conduct awful fast - they had to know that it was unlikely any harm would come to them - just bugs me.
Code of Conduct for Members of the United States Armed Forces
I. I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.
II. I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.
III. If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
IV. If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.
V. When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause
VI. I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.
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Queeg
SOF Support
After the 2007 HMS Cornwall incident. The three guys on the far right got it.
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TLDR20
Verified SOF
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Yeah this is totally equatable to 9/11, always a classy thing to compare to.
This was a success because our people are home. Threats do not always need to be issued. Ruling by ultimatum does not make you strong, it makes you a bully.
Brill
SOF Support
Typical Democrat-style response: disagree with the facts (logic in this case), attack the person.
I will concede, however, that you are correct. Ruling by ultimatum is bullying are signs of a very weak leader.
Wielding A Pen And A Phone, Obama Goes It Alone
Good question.
Here's a few more: We're not at war with Iran so is "captured" the right word? And is Conduct After Capture applicable under those circumstances? Then again if it's a mere "detainment" why should an American serving officer feel compelled to apologize? Does he have a gun to head? Is he being tortured? Does one have to be so cooperative if he's not being threatened with serious bodily injury or death?
And it seems to me any apology--if deemed diplomatically prudent--should come from DoS.
Queeg
SOF Support
My take is that even if one is "detained" vice being "captured" they should stick to Rank, Name, SN etc. To deviate from those responses opens up the detainee to leading questions by the "interrogator" which could negative follow on effects later.
People assume that they didn't start off that way.
What level of SERE Training did they get?
The media keeps calling them Riverine boats, they look more like Port Security boats to me; different missions, different levels of training.
Not sure which button to press.
So this is nothing more than a WTF moment, some shit went bad, some sailor's got detained for less than 24 hrs, and everyone went home with all their gizmos...put yourself in their shoes for a minute, without the Rambo option, and be glad that our sailors are not being held in some shithole prison for years upon years, for nothing.
RetPara
SOF Support
Seriously.... this shocks members here. For the last few years haven't we run posts tracking how many Navy commanders and command groups have been relieved? Go back over the last several years you will find that the Navy is very publicly relieving ship & boat Captains, XO's, & CmdMasterChiefs at a rate heretofore unheard of in history. That riverine squadron chain of command, down to the leading PO's of each boat are toast, administratively. The Navy has worse problems now than what was evident in the late 60's-early 70's with their leadership. There are a LOT of questions that remain, why were they patrolling around the island, granted the IRGC has a base there. They had 3 M2's, M4's and who knows what else. What were the ROE? Did one or both have mechanical casualties? If only one did; then why did not the other boat rig for towing and get the fuck out of Dodge. They go in pairs for a reason. Also I thought leaving small boats hanging out there without support ended decades ago... These boats are smaller than the PT boats of WWII. I have more questions than outrage right now.
As of now "undetermined mechanical or navigational problems" and the crews are undergoing "reintegration and debriefing" in Bahrain. Oh, and Kerry says he didn't apologize and the quick release of the crew was due to the nuclear deal.
pardus
Verified Military
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I was cringing watching the salt water splash over the guns.
Badass boats, I was expecting a larger main gun though.
I can't tell my small craft apart but this footage of the incident should help with the ID.
I thought @SkrewzLoose said they were Houdongs.
In September 1994, 5 variants of the Huangfeng design, named Houdong, were delivered to Iran. Another 5 more were delivered in May 1995. In March 1996, Iran took delivery of the last 5 Houdong FACs. The Houdong were equipped with the long-range C-802 anti-ship cruise missile (120 km range with 700 kg warhead). This brought the Iranian fleet to ten Houdong FACs. Other reports claimed that China sold Iran about 40 Hudong fast attack missile boats and more than 80 C-802 anti-ship cruise missiles during the mid-1990s.
Huangfeng (TYPE 021) - People's Liberation Army Navy
