United States & Gun Control discussion.
- Thread starter Diamondback 2/2
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House passes bill loosening gun restrictions - CNNPolitics
I am on the fence about this. I am all about carrying but I want background checks done.
I am on the fence about this. I am all about carrying but I want background checks done.
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Kraut783
SOF Support
Agree....I hope it is a step in the right direction.
Florida173
SOF Support
Did I miss where this has something to do with background checks?
Doesn’t this completely negate states rights?
I seem to remember states’ rights being REALLY importantly.
I seem to remember states’ rights being REALLY importantly.
They are to me, but being a white male from the South every time I bring it up the room gets quiet....
Two things to consider:
1) Supremacy Clause of the Constitution
2) During the Civil Rights movement, many states had laws that infringed on the rights of African Americans and other minorities. Those laws don't exist anymore. No state (and certainly no city) should be able to create laws that unnecessarily infringe on my right to protect my life, liberty, and property with a firearm. My driver's license is good in every state. Every state recognizes my marriage license. Why is my gun permit any different?
Meh, CCW/CHL/LTC gets treated like a driver's license.
This wouldn't be that big an issue if NYC and a few other cities would let airline travellers transit without arresting them.
This wouldn't be that big an issue if NYC and a few other cities would let airline travellers transit without arresting them.
I have had gun permits from Georgia, North Carolina, and Connecticut. Getting a permit in Connecticut was a huge pain in the ass. They don't recognize any other state's permit, and my local PD slow-rolled me to the point that it took me four times to get fingerprinted and cost me over a hundred dollars and several hours of my life over the course of more than six months for me to get a permit that allowed me to take my handguns from my house, where I'm legally allowed to have them, to the range, where I'm legally allowed to shoot them. And finally, I was able to carry a handgun to protect myself, my family, and my property in the crime-ridden city of New Haven.
Then I moved to New York. Yay. First of all, I had to sell off a couple of my long guns so I wouldn't be a felon the moment I crossed state lines. Then, I had to get another permit. That's right, NY doesn't recognize anyone else's permits, either. Here's the thing: NY's permit process requires several hundred dollars in direct and indirect fees to get a carry permit. I have to go through the fingerprint process all over again (um, don't you have like a database you can tap into for that?), they sent a deputy to my home, I have to get four (count them four) "character references (as if it's anyone else's business that I want a gun permit), and oh yeah it all has to be notarized. I even have to write a letter to the freakin' judge explaining why I want a permit. And apparently it can't simply be a copy of the 2nd Amendment or a summary of DC vs. Heller. Bottom line, they make it as difficult, expensive, and time-consuming as they can to get a permit in this state. And even then, I can't carry in New York City, which is probably where I need it the most.
Then I moved to New York. Yay. First of all, I had to sell off a couple of my long guns so I wouldn't be a felon the moment I crossed state lines. Then, I had to get another permit. That's right, NY doesn't recognize anyone else's permits, either. Here's the thing: NY's permit process requires several hundred dollars in direct and indirect fees to get a carry permit. I have to go through the fingerprint process all over again (um, don't you have like a database you can tap into for that?), they sent a deputy to my home, I have to get four (count them four) "character references (as if it's anyone else's business that I want a gun permit), and oh yeah it all has to be notarized. I even have to write a letter to the freakin' judge explaining why I want a permit. And apparently it can't simply be a copy of the 2nd Amendment or a summary of DC vs. Heller. Bottom line, they make it as difficult, expensive, and time-consuming as they can to get a permit in this state. And even then, I can't carry in New York City, which is probably where I need it the most.
@Marauder06 thanks, as always, I hadn’t thought of it like that.
I personally have Florida, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, and Ohio CCW. That gets me about 38 states. I was literally ok with that from the second I wanted to legally carry as many places as possible. Because full disclosure? I carry.
I would love a tightly regulated national CCW, but I am now a lot more educated on states rights and national policy!
I personally have Florida, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, and Ohio CCW. That gets me about 38 states. I was literally ok with that from the second I wanted to legally carry as many places as possible. Because full disclosure? I carry.
I would love a tightly regulated national CCW, but I am now a lot more educated on states rights and national policy!
Kraut783
SOF Support
I wouldn't be opposed to a national CCW permit.....States could make sure the training gets done and background checks, then issue one national CCW card. As long as the states get the money, why not? besides the fact the federal govt would screw it up somehow....but it would be nice.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I still can't believe there wasn't a stomping of this a long time ago. 2nd Amendment seems pretty clear to me, so that means the Feds government firearms. NICS check exists, why does there need to be more?
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I would have to read that article again, I was more making it a point that I like background checks for everyone before you buy a gun and carry it everywhere or anywhere.
I'm as pro 2A as they come however there are people who should not be able to obtain firearms due to their background, ah, that is from a state where the gun laws are loose.
I was just making a observation that's all
Dame
Member
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Nevada was probably the loosest state to carry in even when you were here. It's looser now. You were the only person to ever open carry in my home and I have to say I appreciated it. What Mara has to go through to even own guns in certain states is clearly infringement on the rights of We the People. When do I feel safest? When I'm with someone else I know has a firearm and knows how to use it. Plain and simple.
ETA: Responsible gun ownership means a lot to me, as you well know A. I have to say that good people police themselves and their family and seek outside help when necessary. Don't forget that.
policemedic
Verified SWAT
National CCW reciprocity has existed for law enforcement since 2004. Generally, LEOs can carry anywhere in the US or its possessions. The caveat is we have to qualify annually with the weapon type we carry.
The qualification/training requirement is the only thing different between this bill and LEOSA (the individual states will determine their licensing/training requirements instead of Congress), but the concept is not new.
There is a potential here for unintended consequences to occur. We currently grant full faith and credit to driver’s licenses and marriage/divorce decrees. Same/same for vehicle registration. But what we don’t do is recognize professional licensing.
Nurses, physicians and others with professional licenses in their state still have to apply for a new one if they move. Will this new proposed law set precedent for interstate acceptance of other licenses?
The qualification/training requirement is the only thing different between this bill and LEOSA (the individual states will determine their licensing/training requirements instead of Congress), but the concept is not new.
There is a potential here for unintended consequences to occur. We currently grant full faith and credit to driver’s licenses and marriage/divorce decrees. Same/same for vehicle registration. But what we don’t do is recognize professional licensing.
Nurses, physicians and others with professional licenses in their state still have to apply for a new one if they move. Will this new proposed law set precedent for interstate acceptance of other licenses?
Let's say amlove is flying from Florida, where he is licensed to carry, to Maine, which recognizes his permit. He wants to take his handgun with him because... you know what "because" doesn't matter because assuming it's for a lawful purpose that's his business not ours. Anyway, in accordance with applicable laws, he unloads, locks, and declares his handgun at the check-in counter in Florida. No drama.
He then has a connecting flight in New York. No wait, that's too obvious, let's say New Jersey. It's winter and after several hours of delays, his connecting flight gets cancelled. The airline gives him all his stuff back, including his gun, books him a room in a hotel attached to the airport, and arranges for a new connecting flight the next day. He gets a good night's sleep, is first in line for check in the next morning, and once again declares his handgun, still in its case from the day before.
And then he gets arrested.
John Stossel Interviews Gun Owners Arrested for Traveling in New York
Or mara, who is licensed in Connecticut, wants to go home to Kentucky for Christmas. After more than a year of trying, he finally gets his CT permit. He already has one from Kentucky, which is good in something like 40 of the 50 states. But it's not valid New York. And NY doesn't recognize anyone else's permits, and apparently they don't issue permits to out-of-state residents except under some very specific circumstances. Mara, not wanted to break the law, dutifully locks up his handgun inside his vehicle before he crosses into New York State. Just before he crosses into Pennsylvania, where he can legally carry again, mara and his family stop for gas. It's late, it's dark, and it's a somewhat-sketchy looking area but hey they need a stop. While pumping gas, he and his family are confronted by three young men armed with knives who demand his money and his vehicle. You know, the vehicle that holds his legally-purchased handgun, that for some reason he can't be trusted to carry on his person in the state of New York. I'll let you imagine how this hypothetical story ends.
I don't stop being an American citizen when I cross state lines. My individual rights, enshrined in the Constitution and validated by multiple Supreme Court decisions, shouldn't change from state to state. If people are serious about "common sense gun laws," then certainly one of the top five things on the list should be national concealed carry.
So by indirect admission, you actually don't know gun law. Restricted people are restricted in all 50 states, period. If a state wants subjects not citizens (NY, CT, CA) they should not be allowed to fuck over/with other Americans.
This would be a great thing, as relicensure is one large reason many people do not move from areas, to areas they could make more in.
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I do know gun law. I could have worded my original statement more clearly.
