United States & Gun Control discussion.
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ThunderHorse
Verified Military
8 MSMs and 2 Purple Hearts awarded. Wonder why not Soldiers Medals.
Army ROTC cadets receive meritorious service medals, Purple Hearts after stopping shooter
Army ROTC cadets receive meritorious service medals, Purple Hearts after stopping shooter
That's been the main discussion on the Army subreddit. Nobody can figure it out.
The most reasonable idea I've seen is the Soldier's Medal is for acts of valor "not in conflict with the enemy", and maybe that's why. Granted, the Air Force gave one to the airman who helped stop that French Train attack in 2015.
I think you can get one or the other, PH or SM.
I'd rather have the MSM and the PH, personally.
Can you imagine walking in to your first official unit function as one of these guys? You've got one ribbon bar. It has three ribbons: an MSM, an ASR... and a freakin' Purple Heart.
As a 2LT.
So they got the Purple Heart, which means they were wounded in combat.
So do they get to wear the Cadet Command patch on the right sleeve?
So do they get to wear the Cadet Command patch on the right sleeve?
Ah, that does make sense as well. Can't be both involved in combat with the enemy and not involved.
The Quartermaster
Verified Military
And the enemy? A former soldier.
Former soldier, former immigrant and naturalized citizen, former felon convicted of terrorism-related offenses and somehow still allowed to remain in the country... lots going on here.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Not sure how you get a PH or Soldier's Medal. Soldier's Medal is for non-combat heroism. Purple Heart being wounded in combat. So I guess I understand what you're saying here is that if you're being recognized for being wounded in combat, a Soldier's Medal cannot apply here.
Which is interesting since they started issuing Purple Hearts for TBI in combat, but how do you recognize TBI in training?
Yes. If the fight against Islamic terrorism is worldwide and constant, I can see a case that this was a combat situation, warranting combat decorations.
But if this wasn't combat, then you don't get combat awards.
It gets real wild when you look at history. I'm dumb and went down that rabbit hole because this is curious to me. The TLDR is it appears you can have a Purple Heart without receiving a combat award.
Purple Heart criteria for those interested. It's a slog almost as bad as my posts.
https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Purple Heart
Iranian Embassy in 1979 awards include the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, the Combat Action Ribbon, Navy Commendation Medal, and Purple Heart. Minus the CAR I couldn't find anything for combat or with a V device.
Berlin discotheque bombing victims, PH but nothing for combat.
USO bombing in Italy, I couldn't find anything on awards, PH or otherwise.
Robert Stethem, Navy Diver killed in the TWA 847 hijacking, PH and Bronze Star but the Bronze Star award is for "...heroic achievement on 14 June 1985 while assigned to Detachment November Mike '85 of Underwater Construction Team One..." I can't find any evidence of a V device.
I don't agree with the ROTC event not resulting in a valor award but there's an obvious precedent for a "mix and match" approach to terrorist attacks. I mean, dude's shooting people, so closing with and destroying the enemy with a freaking KNIFE kind of warrants combat in my eyes. A life and death struggle where you have a bladed weapon and the other guy has a gun? That's not combat? Okay, I guess.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Purple Hearts are given without combat awards all the time. Especially with all the TBI's for Iraq now. It used to just mean you got shot. Lol. A buddy of mine who was a PL in Afghanistan got one for taking shrapnel from a mortar, story slightly hazy, but they were sleeping in tents on a COP somewhere and he was either still sleeping or had just woken up because they were getting shelled and putting his kit on. Shrapnel was minor.
There's a fun scene in Band of Brothers where the one guy has three purple hearts...and he says he got one for a boil being lanced. But Blythe gets one and is done for the War. I guess that's more true about Purple Hearts than not.
There's a fun scene in Band of Brothers where the one guy has three purple hearts...and he says he got one for a boil being lanced. But Blythe gets one and is done for the War. I guess that's more true about Purple Hearts than not.
Devildoc
Verified Military
I remember having to write up statements and affidavits for folks who had their bell wrung so they could get PHs and get it in their record for VA bennies.
My dad was hit by shrapnel in the Dominican Republic in 1964, barely nicked. He was awarded a PH but never wore it, thought it was a BS award.
My dad was hit by shrapnel in the Dominican Republic in 1964, barely nicked. He was awarded a PH but never wore it, thought it was a BS award.
He also ended up with 3 Purple Hearts after Korea, along with a Silver Star and three Bronze Stars.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Just looked that up. My Grandfather was in 187th in Korea. Wild.
The Quartermaster
Verified Military
And Blithe survived. Retired as an E-8 having made the Army a career. I wonder why they wrote him dirty like that as it dishonors him and his service.
The Quartermaster
Verified Military
Seriously? I've got a documented TBI and I'd refuse a PH if offered as that's BS.
The Quartermaster
Verified Military
Anyways I am happy that they were recognized and awarded something for it. We want to encourage meat eating and the willingness to engage, close with, and destroy our enemies both foreign and domestic by any means necessary and with our bare hands if so be.
Devildoc
Verified Military
I got a TBI and was asked (years) after the fact if I wanted to hunt down all the documentation for a PH. I declined.
Knowing what I do and have seen, I'd put in for a PH resulting from a TBI. No judgement on those who aren't, but that's a legit injury and you have a "gift" that will keep on giving for the rest of your lives. We don't have enough data as yet to know where you and by extension your families will be over that TBI in 5, 10, 20 years.
Something else to consider, if not for yourselves, but in general: metrics. Some data nerd will look at PH numbers, TBI numbers, all of the numbers, and correlate TBIs resulting in PH's and whatnot. Those numbers will go into a study at some point and by not self-reporting you're unintentionally skewing the data.
One outsider's perspective. No more, no less.
Something else to consider, if not for yourselves, but in general: metrics. Some data nerd will look at PH numbers, TBI numbers, all of the numbers, and correlate TBIs resulting in PH's and whatnot. Those numbers will go into a study at some point and by not self-reporting you're unintentionally skewing the data.
One outsider's perspective. No more, no less.
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