Ways to mitigate DUIs at the company level

[Marine0311]

What kind of unit are you in?

What kind of of unit are you in that allows this crap from top to bottom. It sounds like a culture of piss poor leadership.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

So they can damage property or worse, kill someone on their "second chance"??

I don’t really want to dive off into the subject too much but yes, unless someone was hurt, or property is damaged, I don’t believe the punishments should be as strong as they are. I am not saying they should not face a consequence, I just don’t think they should be as life changing. On the other hand, someone who gets drunk and kills someone because they were driving should face the death penalty. Someone who damages property should go to prison and should have to pay for any and all damages, etc. But someone who gets pulled over and who has had a few, should not be hulled off to jail, fined heavily, have their driving license suspended, put on probation, most likely lose their job and have a criminal record, when they did not hurt anyone or damage any property. I went through it, and I am still paying for it, and the circumstances around it, IMHO were complete bullshit.

Just my $0.02

 

[Marauder06]

What kind of of unit are you in that allows this crap from top to bottom. It sounds like a culture of piss poor leadership.

lol, that too but I meant what kind of unit as in schoolhouse, line unit, SOF, etc.

 

[dirtmover]

In an engineer line company.

 

[Marauder06]

Interesting. Why are you having meetings at 0430? Is that a regular thing or in response to the DUIs?

 

[Crusader74]

Were the DUI's on base or off base?

 

[DA SWO]

That said, your CO needs to have a come to Jesus with the units leadership (NCO’s and Officers). He needs to sacrifice one of the offenders, and make life hell around the unit. Extra work, extra field time, extra bullshit tasks, or as we used to call it “he needs to show them his devil horns”. The CO needs to reestablish himself as a ball buster (i.e. you fuck up and I will destroy your life) and keep the heat up for about 6 months. After which he can readjust his fire as he sees fit. Any soldier who fucks up gets the hammer dropped on him (i.e. max UCMJ or chapter them out). No favoritism, no special deals, no exceptions. The CO and 1SG need to establish that the behavior is not acceptable, that it will be punished to the maximum and without regard to past performances. Soldiers who care, will shape up, the soldiers who do not care, will be shipped out.

The 1st Sgt needs to know that his job is on the line too.

Next DUI gets a Company Grade Art-15 with max fine/bust. (Company CO can not announce that prior to the event).

Guy after that gets chapter action started in addition to the max punishment.

Guy after that gets his max punishment handed to him from the BN Cdr, along with Chapter Action.

 

[RetPara]

DUI used to be a Bn level NJP.

Hard to believe that Co Cdr & 1SG don't already have bullseyes on their backs already.

 

[Ranger Psych]

next shit that happens everyone goes on an armor and promask run for 2 hours.

Then give a 30 minute class on how the fuck to be a responsible alcoholic, including the concept of a designated driver, the people in the company who are in the "I don't give a fuck, just call me before you decide to try to drive drunk"

I mean, my controls for my guys were this:

A: I did CQ alot. I was on the roster basically every week and basically always had a "3 day" because of it, and made some cash... so I had a good pulse on what my guys were doing.
B: I'd pop in and see what the fuck was going on with the guys other nights of the week if it was a holiday or otherwise w/e. "AT Ecarry on, I see 4 cases of beer what's the occasion and why didn't you invite me"
C: 21st birthdays got a free DD from me with my truck, which meant the birthday man and 4 of the guys could tag along right off the bat in the crew cab, more if someone else volunteered to be a DD (which usually happened since I always seemed to get the "free DD" perks regardless of where we went and if they actually had any... show up with a platoon size element and the sober guys are gonna get free shit since you're bringing in cash)

D: I didn't give a fuck. You have an issue, CALL ME. Call your own fucking team leader first, but if all else fails CALL ME. I have a trailer, I can load up your ride and get you home safe. We'll worry about paying the piper when you want to get your rig off my trailer.

E: Batt, as well as the company and BN in legland had a program of basically 1SG/CSM's petty cash. Company store funds could/would be used with hand reciept to servicemember to pay for the taxi to return them home safely. Anchorage also had some programs that we shared with the guys, as well as the base itself had the drunk van that'd pick people up.

F: Batt I'd go pick guys up since I was a barracks rat, all the time. If I went out to drink, I wasn't driving and I was crashing at someone's place off post. If I was sober in the barracks? I'd come harass CQ for no reason other than to entertain them and myself (I'm that guy that'd poke at a SGT who he got along with, heaven forbid I get pushups it just means better PT scores) and I'd get a call or be around for the call when people needed a ride home... Cavalry time with the company truck.

 

[HappyEngineer]

Impound your car for 6 months to one year. Walk everywhere on base. If you need to ride somewhere far ride your own bicycle. You are not allowed to accept rides from someone else. Write 1,000 words in APA format on the dangers of drunk driving. Visit the local morgue to view those who died as a result of drunk driving.

Wish I could like that comment.

 

[HappyEngineer]

I would use a little Tact, suggest to the Commander that the senior leadership step up. Maybe have the Seniors hold some sort of NCOPD or Sensing and give them "Junior NCO's" the cold hard truths. Those truths are the ones that SMA Chandler spoke of in Notes from Sergeant Major of the Army publication that can be found with a simple google search or reading the NCO Journal publication that the Army has. And if it is the Seniors where the problem lies, suggest some cold hard fact to them as well, Tactfully of course. :blkeye: Hope I'm not out of my lane. Below is a direct quote of SMA Chandlers about the kind problem you spoke of.

Average Performers:NCOs / Soldiers that are just average performers may find it difficult to stay in the Army or in
their current MOS when it comes time to re-enlist.
For those that receive a no on the values portion of the NCOER, receive a poor NCOER,
DUI, or Article 15 may find it difficult to stay in the Army.
If they are allowed to stay they could be forced to fill a MOS, other than
their current one, that the Army needs help in filling. He used the phrase
"Tightening up the ranks" a lot tonight.

 

[pardus]

Chandler must have come up with that during all of his time in combat deployments... :-"

 

[HappyEngineer]

I'm not saying I back the man in every aspect. I am saying that he has put a standard out and it is the jobs of NCO's at every level to ensure we do adhere to it. The standard of not tolerating Drinking and Driving is not new either. I mean it may not be as serious as having your hands in your pockets but its pretty serious stuff! I wouldn't want a drunk driver to hit you on the road and I wouldn't them to hit my family either. The NCO's where wrong, SMA being a valorous Combat Vet has nothing to do with a standard that makes sense.
Please don't kill me.:-"

 

[pardus]

I'm not saying I back the man in every aspect. I am saying that he has put a standard out and it is the jobs of NCO's at every level to ensure we do adhere to it. The standard of not tolerating Drinking and Driving is not new either. I mean it may not be as serious as having your hands in your pockets but its pretty serious stuff! I wouldn't want a drunk driver to hit you on the road and I wouldn't them to hit my family either. The NCO's where wrong, SMA being a valorous Combat Vet has nothing to do with a standard that makes sense.
Please don't kill me.:-"

lol, no you are correct.
I get very cynical and a little pissed when I hear about "Standards" which for the most part is lip service to what suits the powers that be at the time.

I actually thought about writing to Chandler with regards to the suicide problem in the Army, and telling him he could make large steps in preventing it if he instituted real change that stopped Soldiers getting fucked over constantly. Particularly by incompetent, uncaring and corrupt NCOs.

 

[0699]

Set the standard.
Maintain the standard.
Punish those that fail to meet the standard.
Easy shit.

IME, too many people are willing to accept excuses for shit like this. There is a standard. Maintain that standard by maxing out the offenders. If nothing else, it will make others go "I don't want that to happen to me..." Assuming all the normal control measures (arrive alive program, shit like that) are in place, there will always be a certain percentage that won't meet the standard. Hammer the fuck out of the offenders.

PS: Mass punishment doesn't work. If the unit has an eight hour safety stand down because four turds got DUIs, all you end up doing is punishing the guys that didn't do anything wrong. 99% will do the right thing; don't punish them for the sins of the few.

 

[Ranger Psych]

I dunno, an unknown distance run in promask, armor and full ACU's can be a convincing feature that you're a unit, you succeed and fail as one.

 

[Crusader74]

If Soldiers are being convicted in a civilian court for DUI's and fined, that should have a bearing on their Job, whether a demotion or getting grounded (not permitted to drive Military Vehicles) for a period of time. I know guys here who got convicted have been pulled from deploying Overseas due to a drink driving charge..

A fine of over €500 would mean not being reengaged for service.