pardus
Verified Military
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
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Your Experiences With "Toxic Leaders"
- Thread starter Marauder06
- Start date
I think this is from the plot of Ultimate Force mate...Hanno fucked that guys shit up though lol.
(Just kidding...but it is a case of life imitating art).
The Unit is supposed to be fiction, not based on events.
The "Toxic Leader" thread has become pretty popular, I thought it might be useful to have a separate thread in which we can share stories from our personal experiences about how "not" to be a leader. Military and civilian experiences are equally welcome.
Keep in mind that this is a public forum, available to anyone with Internet access. I encourage you to refrain from referencing specific individuals by name, and if you mention a specific organization, that you omit the dates. If the "toxic leader" is someone that you work for or with currently, it might be best that you don't comment at all. That will avoid potential embarrassment or adverse action against you for telling the story.
So, what have you got?
Keep in mind that this is a public forum, available to anyone with Internet access. I encourage you to refrain from referencing specific individuals by name, and if you mention a specific organization, that you omit the dates. If the "toxic leader" is someone that you work for or with currently, it might be best that you don't comment at all. That will avoid potential embarrassment or adverse action against you for telling the story.
So, what have you got?
I was a junior NCO in a section that was the 'black sheep' of the Company, not for quality of personnel, but for a perceived less sexy and "important" mission. Because of this, we got saddled with details that should have been spread across other sections. Due to receiving a new OIC, who was one of the true subject matter experts in the field, and the hard work of my soldiers... we were doing something like 50% more than the section had in previous years, and starting to receive recognition from echelons pretty high above us. We had a pretty good NCOIC, who was selected for Warrant Officer and left abruptly. The NCOIC left instructions for the 1SG to send me to the promotion board.
Our company 1SG, who was a different MOS than 90% of the company and never did figure out what we did, was always looking for things to fault us on. We had excellent soldiers and it was really just resentment that our OIC (a senior warrant) was blocking the 1SG from not distribution details fairly (pointless details that took us away from a real world mission).
For example, we had less than 20 people where we were at, with the rest of the company spread out far away. The 1SG mandated we have a barracks CQ because "we should have a CQ." NCOs had to pull CQ every 3 nights and did not get the next day off. I went straight to work after CQ. Since our NCOIC was leaving, he asked the 1SG to sponsor me for the promotion board, which the 1SG agreed to. The intent was for me to take over the NCOIC job and keep the mission rolling. The CSM asked me to extend, and I reenlisted for 1 year stabilization.
Well, the OIC got promoted unexpectedly, and both he and the NCOIC left. Shortly before promotion board time, the 1SG informed me that he was moving an NCO in to be NCOIC over me. The new NCOIC had zero experience, and wasn't the right MOS to hold the slot. The new NCOIC, under instructions from the 1SG, told me I had to go through a 3 month evaluation period before going to the board. I had maybe 6 months left in the unit. I said Roger, and continued to run the shop for 2 more months as the new NCOIC sat around surfing the internet all day. He was not legally qualified to do any of the work, and essentially had no real job. He had a meeting with all our soldiers one day and said "Look, I don't care about the mission here. I think it's stupid." After that, the soldiers pretty much got demoralized and stopped putting effort into work. Then we went back to doing details like before.
I finally got fed up and realized I could waive my reenlistment option and branch would put me on orders right away, which I did. The section was disbanded about 6 months later and all the personnel redistributed. The 1SG, who had no deployments anywhere (in 2008) got orders to a MITT team and tried feverishly to try to get out of it and stay in his non-deploying unit. The new section NCOIC held my NCOER until literally hours before I caught my flight to PCS, and gave me a 2/2 NCOER that said "Promote Now" anyone familiar with Army NCO ratings knows is contradictory. He also omitted major things like "hand picked for an MTT to train a battalion on (tasks to perform our mission)." I flew across an ocean to train another unit and was by name requested to return to give more training. Wasn't on my evaluation, which I should have seen at least a week prior but was ambushed with as I was leaving the unit (so I wouldn't have time to legitimately complain up the chain of command.)
--
Telling junior enlisted soldiers they are wasting their time at work, when in reality they were performing an important mission is pretty toxic leadership, nevermind giving me an evaluation that will be looked at in the future for promotions and will probably have the board members saying "wtf is this?" I would say "guess what kind of unit this is" but I think some of you would know the answer too easily.
Our company 1SG, who was a different MOS than 90% of the company and never did figure out what we did, was always looking for things to fault us on. We had excellent soldiers and it was really just resentment that our OIC (a senior warrant) was blocking the 1SG from not distribution details fairly (pointless details that took us away from a real world mission).
For example, we had less than 20 people where we were at, with the rest of the company spread out far away. The 1SG mandated we have a barracks CQ because "we should have a CQ." NCOs had to pull CQ every 3 nights and did not get the next day off. I went straight to work after CQ. Since our NCOIC was leaving, he asked the 1SG to sponsor me for the promotion board, which the 1SG agreed to. The intent was for me to take over the NCOIC job and keep the mission rolling. The CSM asked me to extend, and I reenlisted for 1 year stabilization.
Well, the OIC got promoted unexpectedly, and both he and the NCOIC left. Shortly before promotion board time, the 1SG informed me that he was moving an NCO in to be NCOIC over me. The new NCOIC had zero experience, and wasn't the right MOS to hold the slot. The new NCOIC, under instructions from the 1SG, told me I had to go through a 3 month evaluation period before going to the board. I had maybe 6 months left in the unit. I said Roger, and continued to run the shop for 2 more months as the new NCOIC sat around surfing the internet all day. He was not legally qualified to do any of the work, and essentially had no real job. He had a meeting with all our soldiers one day and said "Look, I don't care about the mission here. I think it's stupid." After that, the soldiers pretty much got demoralized and stopped putting effort into work. Then we went back to doing details like before.
I finally got fed up and realized I could waive my reenlistment option and branch would put me on orders right away, which I did. The section was disbanded about 6 months later and all the personnel redistributed. The 1SG, who had no deployments anywhere (in 2008) got orders to a MITT team and tried feverishly to try to get out of it and stay in his non-deploying unit. The new section NCOIC held my NCOER until literally hours before I caught my flight to PCS, and gave me a 2/2 NCOER that said "Promote Now" anyone familiar with Army NCO ratings knows is contradictory. He also omitted major things like "hand picked for an MTT to train a battalion on (tasks to perform our mission)." I flew across an ocean to train another unit and was by name requested to return to give more training. Wasn't on my evaluation, which I should have seen at least a week prior but was ambushed with as I was leaving the unit (so I wouldn't have time to legitimately complain up the chain of command.)
--
Telling junior enlisted soldiers they are wasting their time at work, when in reality they were performing an important mission is pretty toxic leadership, nevermind giving me an evaluation that will be looked at in the future for promotions and will probably have the board members saying "wtf is this?" I would say "guess what kind of unit this is" but I think some of you would know the answer too easily.
And here you go. Im assuming this is the story you are referring to M. I hope there isnt more than one!:eek:
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/07/army-o5-suspended-while-alleged-affair-investigated-071011/
Interesting with the added twist that the wife worked in the boss's office. WTF?:confused:
I hope that Lt Col is stripped of his rank on the parade ground and marched off in disgrace in front of his troops. Things being what they are though he will probably retire with full pay and benefits.
Never reinforcing your suborinates or being reinforced yourself by your leadership is Toxic. Don't get me wrong, reinforcement can be positive or negative but the lack of any reinforcement forces you to keep on trucking and just go ahead. I've been doing the same job for 20 months now and have yet to recieve any form of counseling, any form of reinforcement. I changed this for my subordinates by counseling, both positvely and negatively, so they at least have some idea of what I expect from them.
LibraryLady
Verified Military
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Messages
- 5,072
Getting after a subordinate for taking initiative and getting after same subordinate for not taking initiative in the same shift and for essentially the same reason.
LL
LL
RetPara
SOF Support
Your OIC has relieved at least one senior NCO in every unit he has been in. Then he tells you that your educated way beyond your station in life.....
I reserve a spot in this thread for the 1st October. I may require 3-4 pages.
People who are great at the nuts and bolts of the job but have no idea how to deal with staff, no idea about leadership and, worst of all, no direction on any of that from above.
Zeegers?
____________________________
Cant really comment at the moment but I reserve about 10-pages for 01 Jan 12...
TLDR20
Verified SOF
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2009
- Messages
- 6,103
I have heard this story. I get out in 5 weeks. My wonderful prose on this subject can wait
Had this Major when I was working at the S shop at 2/18, and running a pre-Sniper course, snag me and my Hummer to go pick up Gen. Steele (sp) as I didn't have a class to take to the range that day. He was more or less using me as his own badge of courage as he was a chicken shit skating bastard from Prickville USA. We pick up Gen Steele out in dino land off some tank trail after a helo landing, so Major Asshole wants him to get in the back but he had already seen my combat scroll and name tag and wanted to sit in front with me. So Major Asshole starts to give him my bio after seeing an opportune moment to suck up, and Gen Steele essentially tells him to STFU, that he knows who I am and will talk to him when he gets time after chow maybe. We get back to the barracks and Gen Steele invites me to have chow with him and makes Major asshole stay in the shop to gather paperwork for him to look at when he gets time. Good on Gen. Steele, bad on Major Asshole as it was proof that even a General who had never met him could tell he was a prick from the word march.
My take on it, if you know your shit and live it, it doesn't matter who you know because the other professionals won't give a shit either, and neither will anyone else under or over your command if your not walking the walk.
My take on it, if you know your shit and live it, it doesn't matter who you know because the other professionals won't give a shit either, and neither will anyone else under or over your command if your not walking the walk.
No, "The Hurricane."
I look forward to it. I can't believe that story has made it to the AD side of the house.
AMEN.
There is an old southern gentlemen's rule. "I will never lick the boots of those below me on the social ladder nor will I kick the faces of those below me."
