Active shooter - Navy Reserve Center in Chattanooga Tennessee
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
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policemedic
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How about that. The only Pineland establishments I remember displaying those types of warnings were ABC stores. There probably were more, and I just didn't see them because I wasn't looking (or was out of fucks to give, one or the other).
For a very brief period, some banks in Philadelphia used a sally port entrance controlled by a magnetometer. If you entered with a gun or something else that tripped the metal alarm, you actually got locked in the sally port until someone let you out. Highly illegal, that. Didn't last long, as you can imagine.
/hijack over
TLDR20
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I don't think concealed carry matters at all. I think that there are way fucking more important issues facing veterans and active duty Sm's than the lack of concealed carry. Just a few:
1. 22 SM's/veterans a day commit suicide. Unfuckingacceptable.
2. The way narcotics are given out like candy, creating dependency amongst our force.
3. The risk averse culture of our service in general.
4. How few veterans/SM's utilize their veteran educational benefits.
5. The clusterfuck that is the F-35.
I could go on and on with issue after issue that are more important.
This to me seems like another thing vets,SMs are getting their fucking panties in a bunch about. The fact that one of the SM's was blatantly violating the law, and made little difference should if anything serve as a reminder that there are a shitload of guys who do not need more room to fuck up in the service, and they certainly do not need to be carrying firearms amongst an anxious and potentially nervous public.
I know what you are saying, "well they could have to carry a weapon in combat" well allow me to call bullshit on that one. While some SM's do indeed carry weapons in combat, a huge portion doesn't, and that huge portion is just as likely to become a recruiter as is the infantryman(in reality though I doubt that, the non Combat arms guys prolly equal the combat arms soldiers). Some submariner at a station has no business carrying a pistol in uniform amongst our extremely low threat civilian populace.
Now I know I will get a ton of hates for this, but take out the emotion. Very little would really have helped these guys, but we now have people calling for random uniformed SM's to be armed and walking around our cities? A lot of these people are the same ones probably dreaming over Jade Helm. Why are we willing to accept soldiers walking around in uniform with weapons in our cities, towns and public places? I am actually surprised I haven't seen some blogger talking about how his is a ploy to get armed troops amongst us.
But that is something that feels wrong to me. I'm no conspiracy theorist, I promise you that. But I think arming soldiers amongst our population may not be the most constitutionally acceptable thing.
I think when the "voices" we have as SM's and veterans are on every week or so running their mouths about issues they aren't experts on it degrades when we bitch about actual issues, like the ones above.
1. 22 SM's/veterans a day commit suicide. Unfuckingacceptable.
2. The way narcotics are given out like candy, creating dependency amongst our force.
3. The risk averse culture of our service in general.
4. How few veterans/SM's utilize their veteran educational benefits.
5. The clusterfuck that is the F-35.
I could go on and on with issue after issue that are more important.
This to me seems like another thing vets,SMs are getting their fucking panties in a bunch about. The fact that one of the SM's was blatantly violating the law, and made little difference should if anything serve as a reminder that there are a shitload of guys who do not need more room to fuck up in the service, and they certainly do not need to be carrying firearms amongst an anxious and potentially nervous public.
I know what you are saying, "well they could have to carry a weapon in combat" well allow me to call bullshit on that one. While some SM's do indeed carry weapons in combat, a huge portion doesn't, and that huge portion is just as likely to become a recruiter as is the infantryman(in reality though I doubt that, the non Combat arms guys prolly equal the combat arms soldiers). Some submariner at a station has no business carrying a pistol in uniform amongst our extremely low threat civilian populace.
Now I know I will get a ton of hates for this, but take out the emotion. Very little would really have helped these guys, but we now have people calling for random uniformed SM's to be armed and walking around our cities? A lot of these people are the same ones probably dreaming over Jade Helm. Why are we willing to accept soldiers walking around in uniform with weapons in our cities, towns and public places? I am actually surprised I haven't seen some blogger talking about how his is a ploy to get armed troops amongst us.
But that is something that feels wrong to me. I'm no conspiracy theorist, I promise you that. But I think arming soldiers amongst our population may not be the most constitutionally acceptable thing.
I think when the "voices" we have as SM's and veterans are on every week or so running their mouths about issues they aren't experts on it degrades when we bitch about actual issues, like the ones above.
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Brill
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But the poster said hope and change!
TLDR20
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I think the point is that people don't understand the real threats. Service members are way more likely to be killed driving high on prescription narcotics than they are to be shot by some jihadi. They are even more likely to just eat those pills till they kill themselves. Nobody gives two fucks about that, but in some strange twist, people think this is some kind of "moment" for gun rights or restrictions, when in reality, it is a moment when we as SM's and veterans have the empathy of the public and a voice to say things other than"these colors don't run" and "we should be ashamed to tell people not to waear uniforms off base,"while certain services and units already prohibit it. It is such a farce it cracks me up.
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Arming SM's at their place of work (a State or Federal facility) is a good idea until you realize the lack of pistol training, mindset, and tactics enjoyed by just about everyone in uniform. Now you have some serious liability issues. Defending oneself wouldn't fall under Posse Comitatus or anything, so armed troops on US soil shouldn't cause heartburn...but it will because people are ignorant.
I have seen these "patriots" arming themselves and staying outside of recruiting offices. Please, go home, you are making this mess even worse. Your point is made, Facebook approves, memes generated, now go home and let the adults talk.
The "issue" is that we have a lot of issues at stake right now. I agree with TLDR on that much but disagree with not arming them. They SHOULD be armed, but I'm a pragmatic pessimist and believe they won't be and if they are armed it will be some half-assed, feel good solution. Do it right or don't do it at all and too many, if not most, DoD program are half-assed, feel good measures. We'll jock up and send battalions into the Sangin or invade a country, but we won't tackle the VA, medical issues, or the acquisition process (I'm looking at the F-35, LCS, and Ford-class carriers)? We're failing ourselves and supporting some of the best warfighters on the planet with self-absorbed assclowns.
And risk adverse or toxic leadership? There's right and then what we'll do. That topic will never find a solution. The system is run by people and people will protect themselves. It will take something 10x more massive than 9/11 and the Iraq debacle before we learn and change.
I have seen these "patriots" arming themselves and staying outside of recruiting offices. Please, go home, you are making this mess even worse. Your point is made, Facebook approves, memes generated, now go home and let the adults talk.
The "issue" is that we have a lot of issues at stake right now. I agree with TLDR on that much but disagree with not arming them. They SHOULD be armed, but I'm a pragmatic pessimist and believe they won't be and if they are armed it will be some half-assed, feel good solution. Do it right or don't do it at all and too many, if not most, DoD program are half-assed, feel good measures. We'll jock up and send battalions into the Sangin or invade a country, but we won't tackle the VA, medical issues, or the acquisition process (I'm looking at the F-35, LCS, and Ford-class carriers)? We're failing ourselves and supporting some of the best warfighters on the planet with self-absorbed assclowns.
And risk adverse or toxic leadership? There's right and then what we'll do. That topic will never find a solution. The system is run by people and people will protect themselves. It will take something 10x more massive than 9/11 and the Iraq debacle before we learn and change.
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...and...that should be the end of that.
Christopher Reed told police he was standing in front of the military recruiting station with his AR-15 rifle to guard military personal, when a man asked to look at his gun. Reed said he attempted to clear the ammunition from the gun, and accidentally fired it into the pavement.
http://wate.com/2015/07/23/arm...y-recruiting-center/
Fortunately, The Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon are on the scene.
Veterans stand guard at recruiting office
So many jokes, so little time.
Veterans stand guard at recruiting office
So many jokes, so little time.
The saddest thing I see is that the minute someone loses their life from a tragedy like this the pro gun and anti gun PR machine ramps up and it becomes all about their agenda. Watching fox news and every other thing that comes up on my Farcebook news feed and the lip service paid to the dead Marines and then the vomit of how none of this would have happened if only (insert guns are banned or guns are carried) is sickitating.
Brill
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Why is the "knight" holding the Georgian flag?
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Chattanooga shooting: Pentagon discourages civilian guards - BBC News
"Abdulazeez was shot and killed by police during the attack. His motive was unclear."
Have you noticed this is the latest way these media morons try to downplay any connection with Islam? Oh no, better not offend the sacred cow unless we find a signed confession saying he was religiously motivated.
I think his motives were pretty fucking clear. Just because they haven't found any ties with terrorist organisations, doesn't mean that he wasn't inspired to act on their behalf. If anything, lone wolves are among some of the most troublesome terrorist threats. But they're not going to call it out for what it is?
What bothers me is that this isn't an isolated incident. I read a number of news sources from various countries, and I've noticed that in past year (or two), authorities and/or the media have systematically tried to distance the Islam connection whenever possible in the case of small scale attacks. Usually they try to play the 'mentally ill' card instead. Yes, well, we all know what the diagnosis is.
Meanwhile, the media has no issues INSTANTLY jumping the gun and reporting any harmful incident against a minority as a 'hate crime' (when it often turns out not to be) or tries to at least suggest it.
"Abdulazeez was shot and killed by police during the attack. His motive was unclear."
Have you noticed this is the latest way these media morons try to downplay any connection with Islam? Oh no, better not offend the sacred cow unless we find a signed confession saying he was religiously motivated.
I think his motives were pretty fucking clear. Just because they haven't found any ties with terrorist organisations, doesn't mean that he wasn't inspired to act on their behalf. If anything, lone wolves are among some of the most troublesome terrorist threats. But they're not going to call it out for what it is?
What bothers me is that this isn't an isolated incident. I read a number of news sources from various countries, and I've noticed that in past year (or two), authorities and/or the media have systematically tried to distance the Islam connection whenever possible in the case of small scale attacks. Usually they try to play the 'mentally ill' card instead. Yes, well, we all know what the diagnosis is.
Meanwhile, the media has no issues INSTANTLY jumping the gun and reporting any harmful incident against a minority as a 'hate crime' (when it often turns out not to be) or tries to at least suggest it.
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I set a news alert up for the Lt. Cmdr's name - very interested to see how this plays out for him officially -
http://www.breitbart.com/big-g...his-personal-weapon/
Lieutenant Commander Tim White has now confirmed that he opened fire on gunman Mohammad Abdulazeez during the July 16 attack on Marines and Sailors in Chattanooga.
The Times Free Press lists White as the commanding officer at the Navy Operational Support Center. And they report that he opened fire on Abdulazeez while the attack was underway, but there is no confirmation on whether any of his rounds found their target.
Stripes reports that White’s wife, Franicia White, said she was proud of her husband for fighting back. Franicia said, “He values human life enough to protect his sailors and others. I am honored to be his wife and stand by him 100 percent.”
The Navy Times reports that FBI Special Agent in Charge Ed Reinhold held a press conference in which he did not call White by name, but said, “A service member inside the building saw Abdulazeez approaching and fired at him.”
An unnamed Marine allegedly opened fire on Abdulazeez with a “sidearm” as well, but there is no confirmation on whether he found his target either.
On July 29, a petition was launched asking President Obama to honor those who fought back during the Chattanooga attacks.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-g...his-personal-weapon/
Lieutenant Commander Tim White has now confirmed that he opened fire on gunman Mohammad Abdulazeez during the July 16 attack on Marines and Sailors in Chattanooga.
The Times Free Press lists White as the commanding officer at the Navy Operational Support Center. And they report that he opened fire on Abdulazeez while the attack was underway, but there is no confirmation on whether any of his rounds found their target.
Stripes reports that White’s wife, Franicia White, said she was proud of her husband for fighting back. Franicia said, “He values human life enough to protect his sailors and others. I am honored to be his wife and stand by him 100 percent.”
The Navy Times reports that FBI Special Agent in Charge Ed Reinhold held a press conference in which he did not call White by name, but said, “A service member inside the building saw Abdulazeez approaching and fired at him.”
An unnamed Marine allegedly opened fire on Abdulazeez with a “sidearm” as well, but there is no confirmation on whether he found his target either.
On July 29, a petition was launched asking President Obama to honor those who fought back during the Chattanooga attacks.
I don't know.
I really don't see what the big deal is with arming service veterans- obviously with proper controls and training.
It's not like this is something new. Military guards carry firearms all over the country every day- tens of thousands of armed service-members- for decades, almost completely without incident.
That said, I do agree with everything that @TLDR20 had to say about the "real threats". I just finished dealing with a servicemember with PTSD and other issues, who made an attempt to kill himself. It's a real problem, and he's right about too little attention being given to it.
I really don't see what the big deal is with arming service veterans- obviously with proper controls and training.
It's not like this is something new. Military guards carry firearms all over the country every day- tens of thousands of armed service-members- for decades, almost completely without incident.
That said, I do agree with everything that @TLDR20 had to say about the "real threats". I just finished dealing with a servicemember with PTSD and other issues, who made an attempt to kill himself. It's a real problem, and he's right about too little attention being given to it.
Wish they added the link to the petition, hopefully google can make it happen.
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Allen West reporting that the Navy is charging the Lt. Commander. He posted this today and I have yet to find any additional mainstream sources (CNN, Networks, Fox) although I'd expect Fox to jump on this pretty quick.
What’s happening to this heroic Navy officer from the Chattanooga shooting will make your blood BOIL - Allen B. West - AllenBWest.com
What’s happening to this heroic Navy officer from the Chattanooga shooting will make your blood BOIL - Allen B. West - AllenBWest.com
TLDR20
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He broke the law! He should be punished. The fact that there was a shooting doesn't absolve him of being guilty of flat out ignoring regulations. You don't get to be on your OFP.
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@TLDR20 - agreed, he did break the law. And the military being the last bastion of "them be the rulez", I am not surprised he was charged.
BUT...do you think he would have been charged if the outcome had been different and the Lt. Cmdr was the one to take down the shooter?
And taking this scenario to the extreme, had Lt. Cmdr White killed the bad guy before the Marines and sailor were killed, would White still be facing charges? The emotional side of me says "no way" the public pressure would have been too great, but the more logical Marine in me says "yep", and if the public does not like it, change the laws. In the end I believe that he would have been pardoned or exonerated in some way though.
BUT...do you think he would have been charged if the outcome had been different and the Lt. Cmdr was the one to take down the shooter?
And taking this scenario to the extreme, had Lt. Cmdr White killed the bad guy before the Marines and sailor were killed, would White still be facing charges? The emotional side of me says "no way" the public pressure would have been too great, but the more logical Marine in me says "yep", and if the public does not like it, change the laws. In the end I believe that he would have been pardoned or exonerated in some way though.
Brill
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