Am I being detained?

[Red Flag 1]

His response:

This post event interview, filled in a nice view of what happened pre video, and how he was chased down a couple of flights of stairs to continue the confrontation. It seemed interesting that the interviewer, also seemed to be confrontational in her approach as well. I don't quite get how someone can attack someone else for how his/her hair is styled. There is no copyright infringement on hair styles. It seemed to me that the attacker, and it was an attack, felt comfortably empowered enough to take this confrontation to the point of verbal, and physical battery. Battery is touching someone without their permission, and this was beyond simple battery.. That she grabbed him and pushed him really surprised me. If he were to have done the same to his attacker, even in self defense, it might well have gone to the point of police action, and probably farther. Our society is not in a good place right now. Political correctness is not correct. YMMV.

 

[Marine0311]

You live your life by the code that if a woman puts her hands on you, she is attacking you? I tend to live by the code that I have enough self awareness to know when a woman is attacking me vs when she is doing something else.

No I don't. You seem to have taken my words to far. Generally speaking I don't any random person grabbing me. My first reaction would be to pull away and attempt to create distance. From there we will see what happens.

I do, to have enough self awareness which it why I will see what happens after I disengage from the situation.

Nobody just randomly grabs you. Why? To argue about dreadlocks? Come on and get over it (her).


edit: @Red Flag 1 puts more context into this. She chased him down stairs and continued on? Yeah awesome.

 

[Red Flag 1]

What do you call it?

Don't put your hands on me. Simple

It is called battery: "an offensive touching; an offensive touching or use of force on a person without that person's consent."

 

[Marine0311]

It is called battery: "an offensive touching; an offensive touching or use of force on a person without that person's consent."

I agree.

 

[Ranger Psych]

You live your life by the code that if a woman puts her hands on you, she is attacking you? I tend to live by the code that I have enough self awareness to know when a woman is attacking me vs when she is doing something else.

I don't care who the fuck you are.

If a random asshole engages in a hostile conversation with me, then grabs ahold of me to stop me from leaving, and they aren't a sworn authority in the process of an investigation? Their failure to comply with MY instruction of don't touch me will result in a distinct inability to manipulate the phalanges and distal portions of whatever extremities they choose to use the next time.

 

[TLDR20]

I don't care who the fuck you are.

If a random asshole engages in a hostile conversation with me, then grabs ahold of me to stop me from leaving, and they aren't a sworn authority in the process of an investigation? Their failure to comply with MY instruction of don't touch me will result in a distinct inability to manipulate the phalanges and distal portions of whatever extremities they choose to use the next time.

Yeah, cool, try that on some woman on a college campus and enjoy your time in jail. There was no assault in that video. If he would have hit her he would be the one in trouble.

 

[TLDR20]

Not directing this at @TLDR20 but if you would hit a guy for laying hands on you, but not a woman....equality fail.

Our country wants the illusion of equality, but it damn sure doesn't want equality.

Good point, but I wouldn't hit a guy for doing what that girl did. I'm a grown up, I don't solve my arguments with physical violence unless I am defending my life. There simply isn't an argument worth losing my freedom over.

 

[Ranger Psych]

Yeah, cool, try that on some woman on a college campus and enjoy your time in jail. There was no assault in that video. If he would have hit her he would be the one in trouble.

Right, so preventing him from leaving by holding onto him, then physically pulling him back down the stairs isn't a legally defined form of assault and detention.

 

[TLDR20]

Right, so preventing him from leaving by holding onto him, then physically pulling him back down the stairs isn't a legally defined form of assault and detention.

There might be, but if he reared back and hit her it wouldn't matter.

 

[medicchick]

Someone threatens to cut my hair off because they don't like (I was told to cut it the other day because it's waist length), and when I try to deescalate the situation by LEAVING feel the need to pull me so I almost fall down the stairs, they are getting at least a smack headed their way to get them to let go. "I was physically threatened with mutilation, detained when I went to leave and felt afraid when I was almost pulled down the stairs. I did what I had to to get away".

 

[DA SWO]

Nothing like hitting a woman to escalate the situation.

If she's man enough to lay hands on him, then she needs to be man enough to defend herself.

She'd be arrestable in TX once she stopped him from leaving (or illegally detained him), likewise (in TX ) he could claim self defense once she stopped him from leaving.

The "I'm black and can do what I want to you because you are white" shit needs to stop, to bad DoJ doesn't think white people have civil rights anymore.

 

[Red Flag 1]

If you look at the very end of the first video. The female asked the video taker why he/she was filming this. Right then the female's left hand goes to the camera's lens. It looked to be like she swatted the video taker away. Any thoughts on that, and the degree of empowerment she felt?

 

[Ranger Psych]

There might be, but if he reared back and hit her it wouldn't matter.

You seem to think that the single and only physical action possible is to haul one off.

Guess you never learned joint locks or control holds? I mean, it's not like she's already HANDS FUCKING ON.. oh wait, she is continously from the point where dread-bro tries to leave when he realizes he's attempting to have a discussion with an idiot...

What does hands on mean to anyone with a modicum of training? gee, you've given me a present. Let me bend it in a direction out of design parameters, gaining compliance and getting you to turn around. Then I give you a helpful shove so that distance you wouldn't ALLOW ME TO HAVE, is MADE, and now I can exit stage right.

Follow me at that point and attempt to continue, and that's when I pick up a brick.

 

[TLDR20]

You seem to think that the single and only physical action possible is to haul one off.

Guess you never learned joint locks or control holds? I mean, it's not like she's already HANDS FUCKING ON.. oh wait, she is continously from the point where dread-bro tries to leave when he realizes he's attempting to have a discussion with an idiot...

What does hands on mean to anyone with a modicum of training? gee, you've given me a present. Let me bend it in a direction out of design parameters, gaining compliance and getting you to turn around. Then I give you a helpful shove so that distance you wouldn't ALLOW ME TO HAVE, is MADE, and now I can exit stage right.

Follow me at that point and attempt to continue, and that's when I pick up a brick.

Bro I get it, you could have totally whooped this girls ass. I'm just saying dreads did the right thing and didn't. Sometimes being the bigger person is walking away.

 

[medicchick]

Bro I get it, you could have totally whooped this girls ass. I'm just saying dreads did the right thing and didn't. Sometimes being the bigger person is walking away.

And sometimes people need to be taught it is NOT ok to bully and put their hands on other people because of the way they look. You touch someone against their will and you should be prepared for the fact you may get hurt, whether it's a smack or just a pressure point release.

 

[Grunt]

I look at like this...nothing is personal -- until it's personal...that is, someone puts their hands on you. Are there differing levels of assault and how they are met with ones ability to defend themselves...sure, all of us here know that.

She progressed the situation in a manner that should it have been done to her by someone else, chances are she would have probably reacted physically as was evidenced by her willingness to be physical in this encounter...which, by the way -- she was the aggressor.

Did he need to knock her nose off her face to the point she could blow in her own ear...not really. Would someone have been justified in physically stopping her...sure...to a limit.

Point is...people should never put their hands on anyone for any reason and not expect that someone may touch them back a little harder. People like her perpetuate the "PC'ness" that is destroying us as a nation. She has an issue with someone's hairstyle and feels she can confront them and give them her two cents and they simply have to take it.

Not in my world...

 

[policemedic]

Yeah, cool, try that on some woman on a college campus and enjoy your time in jail. There was no assault in that video. If he would have hit her he would be the one in trouble.

The problem with using terms like assault, battery, etc. in this context is that each term has a distinct legal meaning that varies from state to state. In the legal sense, they each have different defining elements that must be met to justify criminal charges, but also their use as descriptors of the actions someone took. This disconnect is why these conversations often tend to be unproductive. The common meaning we ascribe to these terms in normal discourse simply doesn't apply when we are examining potentially criminal conduct.

For what it's worth, if this occurred in my Commonwealth there was enough in the video to justify arresting the female. She wouldn't have been charged with assault, however (we don't have battery as a formal criminal charge here). I'd charge her with harassment as defined here:
§ 2709. Harassment.

(a) Offense defined.--A person commits the crime of harassment when, with intent to harass, annoy or alarm another, the person:

(1) strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects the other person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same;

(2) follows the other person in or about a public place or places;

(3) engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts which serve no legitimate purpose;

(4) communicates to or about such other person any lewd, lascivious, threatening or obscene words, language, drawings or caricatures;

Depending on where the investigation went, I might add other charges. Harassment in PA is a summary offense; it's a very low-level charge.

I agree that the Camel Clutch would be overkill on the part of the white dude. He has a right to defend himself but the force used must be proportional to what he's facing (which honestly, wasn't much).

 

[8654Maine]

Is the dispute one of gender or size inequity? Is the goal de-escalation or "proving a point"?

Would folks feel the same way if it was a black man accosting a white female?

 

[Frank S.]

Would folks feel the same way if it was a black man accosting a white female?

I would. That is a good question, too. Also notice, if you listen to the Caucasian kid discussing the incident in the video posted by RedFlag1, how different his speech and body language is. Maybe because I'm ESL, I notice a lot of Caucasian (some others too) folks affecting a sort of "black" slang when addressing black people. Is this a way to try and relate to them? Or is it a (subconscious?) way of talking down to them?
As to the original video, it strikes me that these students may well be the first to be up in arms against police brutality (actual or perceived), but this particular female's actions (grabbing, standing in the way of the other student) would get most cops in various degrees of trouble if they were to do the same thing without probable cause.

 

[Brill]

Bro I get it, you could have totally whooped this girls ass.

Trump supporter!