Army Times: SOF unleashed on the world

JohnnyBoyUSMC

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well looks like optempo for SOF isn't gonna go down with iraq done and Afghan gonna be winding down eventually, though as they say "idle hands are the devils playground."
 

DA SWO

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well looks like optempo for SOF isn't gonna go down with iraq done and Afghan gonna be winding down eventually, though as they say "idle hands are the devils playground."
The OPs Tempo was high before 9/11. Hopefully leaving Iraq will allow us to re-engage in Nations we have visited in a while.
 
J

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I think the article is interesting. Admiral McRaven will, without a doubt, champion the cause for SOF in the coming drawdown and I believe Secretary Panetta has good intentions as well. The outline for McRaven's plan seems to include SOF as a whole, which is typically uncharacteristic for him. I say that because McRaven authored the book Spec Ops: Case Sudies in Special Operations Warfare: Theory and Practice, in which he offers analysis of eight direct action operations (six during WWII, the Son Tay Raid and Entebbe). The problem that I had with his book was that it should have been titled Spec Ops: Case Studies in Direct Action. It seems that Admiral McRaven may have grown to realize the full spectrum of special operations if this is indeed his plan.

The second to the last paragraph bothers me. Dozier states: “If it means handing more over to the military, it could be an improvement from a transparency perspective,' said Andrea Prasow, counterterrorism counsel for Human Rights Watch, which has also pushed for the White House to make public how a suspect ends up on the target list." The thought that the Human Rights Watch wants the US to disclose our targeting methodologies is disturbing at best.

Interesting article, thanks for posting it.
 

JohnnyBoyUSMC

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The OPs Tempo was high before 9/11. Hopefully leaving Iraq will allow us to re-engage in Nations we have visited in a while.

Good point, I can imagine now with Iraq having been the focus for such a long time and a big pull on manpower resources that there is more than a few countries that have been neglected and need re-focus on. Iraq....damn seems like forever since I was a fresh faced PFC doing combat patrols there.....sigh...
 

CDG

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It seems like the higher-ups are starting to focus more on what SF's roles has traditionally been. In the SOCOM Doctrine there is also a lot of talk about FID, UW, and the like. The emphasis for the entire spectrum of SOF seems to be shifting towards a teaching/mentoring approach as opposed to all the DA. I know some members here have long felt that SF specifically has gotten too far from its original plan and gotten too focused on the "sexy" stuff to the detriment of other skills like language. I would think that most of SF would be happy about the shifting focus, but would also maybe feel a little put out that SOCOM seems to think they can give the FID/UW mission to anybody. Also, traditionally DA oriented units like the 75th or the SEAL Teams are now seemingly being pushed in a different direction. How does that play out? Am I way off base?
 

dknob

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The OPs Tempo was high before 9/11. Hopefully leaving Iraq will allow us to re-engage in Nations we have visited in a while.

I've met many Army SMU types that will disagree with that statement :)

I've heard nothing but horror stories about complacency and fear by the defense folks of the Clinton era who were too risk averse to even send our best guy on operations aside from the Balkans.
 

dknob

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It seems like the higher-ups are starting to focus more on what SF's roles has traditionally been. In the SOCOM Doctrine there is also a lot of talk about FID, UW, and the like. The emphasis for the entire spectrum of SOF seems to be shifting towards a teaching/mentoring approach as opposed to all the DA. I know some members here have long felt that SF specifically has gotten too far from its original plan and gotten too focused on the "sexy" stuff to the detriment of other skills like language. I would think that most of SF would be happy about the shifting focus, but would also maybe feel a little put out that SOCOM seems to think they can give the FID/UW mission to anybody. Also, traditionally DA oriented units like the 75th or the SEAL Teams are now seemingly being pushed in a different direction. How does that play out? Am I way off base?

I don't foresee the 75th being thrust in a global conflict against terrorists. We have been utilized only in Iraq and Afghanistan. Two warzones.

While the SEALs and SF are deploying all over the world. Including continuously to places like the Philippines and HOA. No 75th there.

The future is SF and JSOC. I think the 75th and the SEALs (unless some get tasked with FID/JCETs) are going to be standing on the sidelines a lot in McRaven's future plan.
 

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I don't foresee the 75th being thrust in a global conflict against terrorists. We have been utilized only in Iraq and Afghanistan. Two warzones.

While the SEALs and SF are deploying all over the world. Including continuously to places like the Philippines and HOA. No 75th there.

The future is SF and JSOC. I think the 75th and the SEALs (unless some get tasked with FID/JCETs) are going to be standing on the sidelines a lot in McRaven's future plan.

How about the use of advisors from the SEALs or the 75th as an augment? I knew guys from both units when I was in HOA that were there in that role.
 

Manolito

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The part of other non traditional operations bothers me. I have seen a trend to use the Military against our own citizens and that is scary to me. I know a lot of people think that is all hype and just trust the leaders they will do right. I am not so sure of that anymore. The Military should not be allowed to operate on US soil against citizens. The National guard is a totally different thing and there is some real time things that show the NG should not deal in civil unrest either.
Time will tell how we deal with facilities that are twice as old as the oldest members of the military. Infrastructure that still has cement sewer systems and cast iron plumbing. These facilities need money and attention to give the warrior a safe sound place to wind down between deployments.
There is a lot of history to predict where these cuts are going but I am willing to wait and see. Retention is good with a solid benefit package if you remove those benefits where does retention go? Look at the retirement figures for the highest enlisted ranks and ask yourself can you live on that amount of money every month in retirement? I hope we do this draw down and training the right way and everybody who gave so much is taken care of.
 

dknob

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There will always be one to two guys from the 75th doing some kind of advising outside of OEF-A/OIF. And we have our RRC guys who can offer much more to McRaven's strategy then the line guys can.

All I'm saying is I don't foresee Ranger platoons running around HOA or Yemen anytime soon. A few guys don't signify a Regimental deployment.
 

DA SWO

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I've met many Army SMU types that will disagree with that statement :-)

I've heard nothing but horror stories about complacency and fear by the defense folks of the Clinton era who were too risk averse to even send our best guy on operations aside from the Balkans.

Lot of non-SMU ops going on. FID was a huge door opener for us, SF deployed a lot (85 countries per year on an average IIRC).
 

JohnnyBoyUSMC

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The part of other non traditional operations bothers me. I have seen a trend to use the Military against our own citizens and that is scary to me. I know a lot of people think that is all hype and just trust the leaders they will do right. I am not so sure of that anymore. The Military should not be allowed to operate on US soil against citizens. The National guard is a totally different thing and there is some real time things that show the NG should not deal in civil unrest either.
Time will tell how we deal with facilities that are twice as old as the oldest members of the military. Infrastructure that still has cement sewer systems and cast iron plumbing. These facilities need money and attention to give the warrior a safe sound place to wind down between deployments.
There is a lot of history to predict where these cuts are going but I am willing to wait and see. Retention is good with a solid benefit package if you remove those benefits where does retention go? Look at the retirement figures for the highest enlisted ranks and ask yourself can you live on that amount of money every month in retirement? I hope we do this draw down and training the right way and everybody who gave so much is taken care of.

The US military is actually forbidden from engaging in police actions in the US under the posse commitatus act except under EXTREME conditions like nuclear terrorist attack and such. The NG fall under command of the governor of the state and thus can be used at his discretion. It scares me to, and to have a nerd moment and quote battlestar galactica (even though it's a perfect quote for this topic) and commander Adama "there's a reason you separate the military from the police: one protects and serves the people, and the other fights the enemies of the state. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."
 

JohnnyBoyUSMC

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WMD is one of the three exceptions to PC, the other two being an insurrection or a Federal quarantine.

Actually other exceptions are in the event of extreme natural disaster, chem/bio attack, and a majority vote by congress.....wait that last part....ah crap.
 

JohnnyBoyUSMC

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I stand corrected. Just another example of why you can't believe everything you learn in class. I did find an interesting article about PC while I was learning that I was wrong. :-)

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/ksil347.pdf

You also have to take into consideration that the military being used as a police force would require the passing of martial law which except again in extreme conditions is itself illegal since it suspends habeus corpus and due process.

Also one has to remember that despite plenty of training in overlapping areas with police forces, military are NOT trained in law enforcement and when compared to a police officer do not have the type of training that is usually given to police that make them what they are. Finally, it's a proven fact as shown through history that there is nothing more corrosive to not only the people's trust in their government and the military but to the military itself than having to police it's own people.
 

Manolito

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Sendero

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Just another reason I love this site. Started reading a very good thread on "SOF unleashed on the world" that segued to whether/when our military can be unleashed on us as citizens. I just learned a lot regarding Posse Commitatus.
 

tigerstr

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How about the use of advisors from the SEALs or the 75th as an augment? I knew guys from both units when I was in HOA that were there in that role.

SEALs are getting involved in the "persistent enagement" side of SOF as much as they can.

Language is becoming part of their pipeline and they also created "Anchor Teams", small teams of experienced SEALs that will specialise for years in a particular country and deploy there more than once in their career.

MARSOC has been moving in the same direction, almost since inception.

It seems that the "by through with" aspect of SOF, as exemplified by the SF, is gaining traction (or maybe becoming prominent) in most SOF elements these days.

The question I would like to ask is, do you thing that mnaybe the pendulum is swinging too much in this direction nowadays?

I mean how about people that joined or will join the SEALs or MARSOC and are not really fond of working with natives, surrogates, etc.

And the qualities needed to be an advisor/trainer/diplomat, do they really apply to a hard-charging but young SEAL or Marine?
 
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