Back to basics for the Army....

[R.Caerbannog]

No offense, but the support people mentioned in the article seem not that good. The disconnect and between some of the support classes and Infantry looks like it hasn't changed much. This is just my experience, but I remember that we used to think that our support company and personnel were garbage. We pretty much expected that they weren't going to do too much for us, and that expectation was proven right one to many times. Maybe things have changed, but what do I know?

As for digging fighting positions and their feasibility it's kind of a mixed bag. I know that we fortified the crap out of our JSS with sandbags. We even created covered bunkers/fighting points on the rooftop.Got to the point that when the engineers showed up, they told us to not build anything else on the rooftop. The bunkers worked, one guys position took a direct hit with an RPG and he walked out with his bell rung but in perfect shape. Fighting positions have their place, although I am skeptical that support will be expected to build or man these positions.

 

[BeauRing3336]

WTF am I going to do with a foxhole? Qualify at BRM or bury myself in it. What idiot can't dig a hole if needed? Show me a picture one time and I have it down. I am glad I don't have to deal with this silliness anymore. I never even thought once of digging a hole while deployed except for the dog I buried because he was my buddy.

Edit: The dog died first and I am going to go play world of warcraft now.

maybe they think its ganna build character?

 

[Marine0311]

maybe they think its ganna build character?

What the heck are you talking about?

 

[BeauRing3336]

digging foxholes Marine0311. Military do things like when you are fresh in. I agree with Bypass that people DO know how to dig holes.

 

[Gunz]

The Marines put everybody through a month of infantry training, regardless of MOS, before they go off to their speciality school. And everybody of course gets the same excellent marksmanship training in bootcamp. This doesn't make our support personnel Marine infantry by any means, but it gives them a good solid understanding of the basics...so if they do find themselves in the shit they aren't useless. "Every Marine a rifleman."

I'm not suggesting the Army adopt it, it may be too cost prohibitive for a very large branch, but it's been proven to be worth the time and expense for the Corps.

 

[Bypass]

Maybe? OK.

With comments like this MAYBE I will just let you light infantry "police"medics get your asses shot off first. I'll fight when it gets to my neighborhood. I don't really care about the rest of the world anymore. It's just my patch of dirt from here on out.

He won't.

You know why.

Now everybody does. ;)

 

[R.Caerbannog]

The Marines put everybody through a month of infantry training, regardless of MOS, before they go off to their speciality school. And everybody of course gets the same excellent marksmanship training in bootcamp. This doesn't make our support personnel Marine infantry by any means, but it gives them a good solid understanding of the basics...so if they do find themselves in the shit they aren't useless. "Every Marine a rifleman."

I'm not suggesting the Army adopt it, it may be too cost prohibitive for a very large branch, but it's been proven to be worth the time and expense for the Corps.

To be honest I wonder how much of these deficiencies boil down toward the mentality of combat arms vs support, and if additional range time would improve it.

 

[DA SWO]

The Marines put everybody through a month of infantry training, regardless of MOS, before they go off to their speciality school. And everybody of course gets the same excellent marksmanship training in bootcamp. This doesn't make our support personnel Marine infantry by any means, but it gives them a good solid understanding of the basics...so if they do find themselves in the shit they aren't useless. "Every Marine a rifleman."

I'm not suggesting the Army adopt it, it may be too cost prohibitive for a very large branch, but it's been proven to be worth the time and expense for the Corps.

Disagree slightly, weapons skills are perishable and an annual two week FTX does not make you infantry.
I've worked with Marine Aviation units and they all laughed the 2-week FTX off as a waste of time.

 

[x SF med]

Thanks for the assist. My PLDC and BNCOC were the same course, I didn't get the full experience.

Back when I went through the Q, it counted as BNCOC, so you got the NCOPD-2 ribbon. I was an "SF Baby" and an E-4 when I graduated. After getting to Devens, and getting on the Board list, along with 15 other guys in the same boat, we all got shipped to Dix to go through PLDC in the same class and Company... it was, um, interesting.... the first question was "Why are all of you wearing the NCOPD with 2?" Somehow :wall::wall::wall::-" we all graduated in the top 15% of the class, my only low mark was D&C, because I suck at marching. From what I understand they never put all more than 5 SF guys in the same Company after that little experiment, LMAO. The TACs had us teaching classes, running PT (with the admonition we could not run at the pace we wanted, and to not go over 50 reps of an exercise at a time), and gave us the weakest people in field skills- especially Land Nav... then bet on us for making sure the weak people passed and learned the skills.

 

[AWP]

The TACs had us teaching classes, running PT (with the admonition we could not run at the pace we wanted, and to not go over 50 reps of an exercise at a time), and gave us the weakest people in field skills- especially Land Nav... then bet on us for making sure the weak people passed and learned the skills.

I went through the Guard's PLDC in '95. Right or wrong I was lumped into the 11 series/ 13F/ frontline medic group. If it was field related we were paired with a CSS soldier who, no offense ladies, was usually female; it made land nav fun. Our only reprieve was in a leadership role or mandatory individual tasks. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[x SF med]

I went through the Guard's PLDC in '95. Right or wrong I was lumped into the 11 series/ 13F/ frontline medic group. If it was field related we were paired with a CSS soldier who, no offense ladies, was usually female; it made land nav fun. Our only reprieve was in a leadership role or mandatory individual tasks. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

My land nav "partner" was overweight, female and had not been to the field since IET... she kept up, I think it was the promise that I would strap an A-7-A to her and drag her and her ruck through the woods if she was unwilling to learn and move out for the graded portions.

 

[AWP]

My land nav "partner" was overweight, female and had not been to the field since IET... she kept up, I think it was the promise that I would strap an A-7-A to her and drag her and her ruck through the woods if she was unwilling to learn and move out for the graded portions.

My favorite was the 100 pound admin clerk from the Virgin Islands. She was legitimately freaked out by night land nav and barely held it together (and barely passed) during the day. I was trying to prep for our trip to the woods and calm her down when a storm hit and they cancelled the event. The color returned to her face when they announced we wouldn't go that night. I can still see her face. She took every ounce of patience in my body and I even contemplated roping us together with 550 cord. She was panicking. I've seen guys refuse to jump who weren't that scared.

 

[Gunz]

Disagree slightly, weapons skills are perishable and an annual two week FTX does not make you infantry.
I've worked with Marine Aviation units and they all laughed the 2-week FTX off as a waste of time.

Wingers...

 

[AWP]

I wonder if the Corps' air wing community changed anything after the Kandahar attack?