Battalion Commander and CSM relieved

Teufel

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http://www.fayobserver.com/Articles/2010/01/22/970220

What do you guys think of this?

A Fort Bragg battalion commander and his top enlisted adviser were removed from their jobs in Afghanistan and sent home for using "poor judgment," an 82nd Airborne Division spokesman said Friday.

Lt. Col. Frank Jenio and Command Sgt. Maj. Bert Puckett were leaders of the 2nd Battalion, 508th Parachute Infantry Regiment, part of the 82nd's 4th Brigade Combat Team, which deployed in August to Afghanistan.
 

Diamondback 2/2

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When I read about it in the Army Times, it sounded like there was a big boo-boo that was covered up somewhere. My personal opinion with out knowing these two men is that you are not going to be releaved on this level unless you fucked up big in some form or fashion.

The Army times talked about how that only 5 BC are relieved on avarage each year, I have seen, served under and been effected by many BC's that should have been releaved more over put in jail.

I would like to know more about what was the true cause before I pass judgment, other then I am sure he fucked up somewhere in the mix...
 

pardus

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From the little I know it sounds like a load of fucking horseshit!

"Lt. Col. Clarence Counts, wrote in an e-mail from Afghanistan in a response to questions. "We are a values-based and professional organization committed to Army values, and this change reflects a continuous commitment to adhere to the highest standards of excellence while maintaining good order and discipline."

IMHO someone who truly believes in the Army values as a real option is delusional. It is merely a bullshit corporate statement meaningless outside of boardroom politics.

You just destroyed two of your own who might have been good to go!
 

AWP

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The article is so vague it is hard to form any sort of opinion on the matter. I find it interesting that the BC is looking for a lawyer, but that isn't indicative of much of anything.
 
L

Looon

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It's total horseshit.

A soldier under their command, slipped a slide into the presentation beforehand that some may have found to be offensive in nature toward blacks. The soldier in question was himself black. Jenio and Puckett had no idea the presentation had been tampered with before they started.

Based on the info and evidence at hand, this is PC BS run amuck.
 

DA SWO

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It's total horseshit.

A soldier under their command, slipped a slide into the presentation beforehand that some may have found to be offensive in nature toward blacks. The soldier in question was himself black. Jenio and Puckett had no idea the presentation had been tampered with before they started.

Based on the info and evidence at hand, this is PC BS run amuck.

Or a Bde commander who wanted a reason to D/X a Bn Cdr.
It'll be interesting to see what actually happens, and why the CG went along.
 

Centermass

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The reader comments on the first article are..interesting.

One of them is mine.

Don't know the LTC in question, but I do know CSM Puckett personally. He is one of the finest NCO's in the Army today, is the epitome, word for word of the Ranger Creed and one of the most exemplary, professional Warriors you will ever have the privilege of meeting or could possible serve with.

As Loon stated, this whole thing is akin to tossing the baby out with the bathwater / total PC horseshit.

The whole thing wreaks and is another reminder why I got out when I did rather than go on to the SMA at Bliss when that carrot was dangled in front of me.

Fuckin idiots.
 

DA SWO

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One of them is mine.


The whole thing wreaks and is another reminder why I got out when I did rather than go on to the SMA at Bliss when that carrot was dangled in front of me.

Fuckin idiots.

Had a 1st Sgt who retired rather then take SGM, fed up with Higher Hq crap.
Too bad, because the Army needs the folks it's running out.
 

Diamondback 2/2

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It's total horseshit.

A soldier under their command, slipped a slide into the presentation beforehand that some may have found to be offensive in nature toward blacks. The soldier in question was himself black. Jenio and Puckett had no idea the presentation had been tampered with before they started.

Based on the info and evidence at hand, this is PC BS run amuck.

I don't buy that for one minute, The BC and CSM job is to review those slides and aprove them and it's the job of who ever is giving the brief to double check them before the brief and check the equipment to make sure it all works and it's correct. If a person fucked with those slides, then that person would have been dealt with.

I don't think this just b/c of a poawer point, there is a lot more to the story!

One of them is mine.

Don't know the LTC in question, but I do know CSM Puckett personally. He is one of the finest NCO's in the Army today, is the epitome, word for word of the Ranger Creed and one of the most exemplary, professional Warriors you will ever have the privilege of meeting or could possible serve with.

As Loon stated, this whole thing is akin to tossing the baby out with the bathwater / total PC horseshit.

The whole thing wreaks and is another reminder why I got out when I did rather than go on to the SMA at Bliss when that carrot was dangled in front of me.

Fuckin idiots.

The Army has shifted big time from what was the normal of your day and what is the normal of today. I don’t like it but it is the way it is now.

If there was some racial things going on in the unit and being over looked or there was some issues that did not meet up with the Army’s “values” and the CSM and BC did not work to solve those issues or they did not stop what ever that problem was, then the buck stops with them.

That CSM’s job is to insure the enlisted men are being treated fairly and to resolve issue that go against Army regs and “values” and if an issue came up he should be advising that BC on how to take care of it. If they failed to do so, then they should have been relieved, regardless of what their background was before that.

Again I think there is a lot more to what happened!
 

RackMaster

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When I read about it in the Army Times, it sounded like there was a big boo-boo that was covered up somewhere. My personal opinion with out knowing these two men is that you are not going to be releaved on this level unless you fucked up big in some form or fashion.

The Army times talked about how that only 5 BC are relieved on avarage each year, I have seen, served under and been effected by many BC's that should have been releaved more over put in jail.

I would like to know more about what was the true cause before I pass judgment, other then I am sure he fucked up somewhere in the mix...

I think that this is the problem. Unless they are taking load for someone under their command, or due to internal politics; then how the fuck does someone reach that level and still be enough of a major fuckstick to get canned from there position in theatre. I know fucksticks make it over there but you would think that the system would have weeded those dicks out by the time they reach any somewhat senior position.
 

Diamondback 2/2

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I think that this is the problem. Unless they are taking load for someone under their command, or due to internal politics; then how the fuck does someone reach that level and still be enough of a major fuckstick to get canned from there position in theatre. I know fucksticks make it over there but you would think that the system would have weeded those dicks out by the time they reach any somewhat senior position.

I wont get to far off into the weeds about it, but I will say there are a lot of senior NCO's and Officer that should have never made to where they are in the Army. NCO's that meet the requirments for promotion by hitting all the right schools and writing their own NCOER's and leadership above them allowing them to be fuck-sticks instead of killing their career like they should (mainly b/c they don't want to hurt anyone).

Officers who ride the system on the backs of good soldiers who never receive the proper credit. Officers who take the credit of other officers/ NCO's to advance futher and mainly officers who push their fuck ups off on the lower level leadership instead of taking responsability.

It's not all of them, but there are more then the other IMHO/ experince.
 
L

Looon

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I wont get to far off into the weeds about it, but I will say there are a lot of senior NCO's and Officer that should have never made to where they are in the Army. NCO's that meet the requirments for promotion by hitting all the right schools and writing their own NCOER's and leadership above them allowing them to be fuck-sticks instead of killing their career like they should (mainly b/c they don't want to hurt anyone).

Officers who ride the system on the backs of good soldiers who never receive the proper credit. Officers who take the credit of other officers/ NCO's to advance futher and mainly officers who push their fuck ups off on the lower level leadership instead of taking responsability.

It's not all of them, but there are more then the other IMHO/ experince.
That's the thing. We aren't talking about two individuals that didn't do the necessary crap to "slide by". We are talking about two individuals that have rules by the rules and with honor their entire careers.

What if it is as simple as someone messing with the slide show just before go time?

Yes there is always more to the story, but this stinks of wrong doing. And not from the two that were relieved.

Puckett is a man who has lived his life by the Ranger Creed. I have never met or heard of a Ranger that doesn't think very highly of the man.
 

car

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One of them is mine.

Don't know the LTC in question, but I do know CSM Puckett personally. He is one of the finest NCO's in the Army today, is the epitome, word for word of the Ranger Creed and one of the most exemplary, professional Warriors you will ever have the privilege of meeting or could possible serve with.

As Loon stated, this whole thing is akin to tossing the baby out with the bathwater / total PC horseshit.

The whole thing wreaks and is another reminder why I got out when I did rather than go on to the SMA at Bliss when that carrot was dangled in front of me.

Fuckin idiots.


Concur. Why don't we wait until we have some facts, instead of an article from a rag (Army Times) published by Gannett Corp.
 

LongTabSigO

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Or a Bde commander who wanted a reason to D/X a Bn Cdr.
It'll be interesting to see what actually happens, and why the CG went along.

Consider that if the Bde Commander went forward with this for whatever reason, the Div CG would be undercutting his Bde Cdr by overriding the Bde Cdr's request to relieve Jenio. The theory is that the decision is such a grave course of action that if the Bde Cdr things such action is merited, then the CG would only deny that in extraordinary circumstances. And, to take that one step further, if the CG denied the Bde Cdr this relief, it puts the CGs confidence in his Bde Cdr at question.

That the CSM was relieved at the same time is the very interesting development. My guess is, as speculated above, that there is far more to this than somebody slipping a slide of questionable humor into a slide deck.
 

LongTabSigO

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The article is so vague it is hard to form any sort of opinion on the matter. I find it interesting that the BC is looking for a lawyer, but that isn't indicative of much of anything.

My advice to the two of them would be to find a lawyer steeped in military administrative law. Unless charges under MCM are preferred, a criminal defense attorney will not be an effective defense. I'd describe it as akin to doing CQB with AT-4's ("just because you can do something doesn't mean you should"). Right now, Jenio and Puckett are being attacked, not with litigation, but with a punitive evaluation. Even if the relief is determined to be unjustified, the best they can hope for is retirement at current grade and having the report expunged. If successful, it will be one of the best multi-thousand dollar expenses (each) they'll have expended.

All i can say is...tough sledding ahead for both.
 
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