Battalion Commander and CSM relieved

[Diamondback 2/2]

That's the thing. We aren't talking about two individuals that didn't do the necessary crap to "slide by". We are talking about two individuals that have rules by the rules and with honor their entire careers.

What if it is as simple as someone messing with the slide show just before go time?

Yes there is always more to the story, but this stinks of wrong doing. And not from the two that were relieved.

Puckett is a man who has lived his life by the Ranger Creed. I have never met or heard of a Ranger that doesn't think very highly of the man.

I am not saying that he is not a good CSM or a great soldiers-soldier. What I am saying is that CSM’s and BC do not get relieved for simple bullshit. If it was for simple bullshit then they were wronged and it should be corrected. Personally I think it is counter productive to the unit as a whole to do a command swap mid tour (unless lives are being lost as a result of the command).

What we know is nothing of what actually happened and all we know is that these two men were relieved and are going to fight it. We don’t really know why they were relieved, but what I do know is that it doesn’t happened unless they fucked up big in some form or fashion. A fucked up power point is not a big enough reason to relieve a BC/CSM.

Now a soldier complaining of racism in the unit, a command clement survey showing high levels of racism in the unit and then the BC/CSM giving a power point with racial shit in it, would be and that stuff is not in line with the Army’s values!

 

[Marauder06]

I knew LTC Jenio slightly when he was at his last unit. Like everyone else I knew in the unit, I had a very high opinion of him.

Before the Army Times article, I thought that the removal of the Bn Commander and CSM was somehow related to the captain from the same unit that died two days before. The articles even ran one below the other in the local paper.

It is my sincere hope that there is more to the story than an offensive PowerPoint slide. LTC Jenio had been GEN McChyrstal's XO at JSOC, I'm sure the CG considered the potential fallout before he pulled the trigger.

At the same time, this is a good example of why I don't allow those kinds of "demotivator" slides into my briefings. For one thing, they're unprofessional, they take up time we could be using to do something productive, AND, they are, almost by definition, offensive. Not worth it. Anyone who inserted a slide I didn't approve into a briefing I had to give outside of my immediate unit, would probably find themselves out of my immediate unit.

 

[Manolito]

I don't want to know what happened but as a manager in DOD not a single presentation would be made that wasn't on a memory stick and in the posession of the presenter right up to the presentation. I made it a point to run every presentation through EEOC because what was said earlier is true. What was acceptable when I started 35 years ago would ruin a career today. There was a time when you were allowed to make a mistake and move on, today people want your career for any infraction. I for one will believe in the two men that were relieved until proven otherwise. I lost one of my managers that put a bikini clad picture in his presentation to keep the attention of the audiance. Try as I could I wasn't able to stop the machine that demoted him. I am so glad to be retired.
Bill

 

[Teufel]

I don't have very much information about this but some of the signs I see may point to some good soldiers getting canned because of political correctness and hyper sensitivity.

 

[Teufel]

Again, I don't know the particulars of this case but I would like to present a parallel situation. At the end of the day, commanders are responsible for everything that happens or does not happen in their command. In 1988 Lcpl Rother died in 29 Palms during a training exercise. He was a road guide/road guard and was posted without a buddy. His platoon commander doesn't keep good accountability of his Marines, packs up his platoon and doesn't realize he has left LCpl Rother behind until he is turning weapons into the armory two days later and comes up minus one. LCpl Rother ends up dying alone in the desert.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,956525,00.html

The platoon commander, company commander and battalion commander were all relieved of command. The real twist here is that the CO of the base (29 Palms) was passed over for a star because of it. The CO was Col John Ripley: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ripley_(USMC) You Army bubbas may remember he was recently inducted into the Ranger hall of fame. He was a Navy Cross, Silver Star, Bronze Star (2) and Purple Heart recipient and was considered a shoo in for General... until a Marine died on his base. Now LCpl Rother was assigned to 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marines which is based out Camp Lejeune and was in no way a part of Col Ripley's command but it cost Col Ripley his star anyway.

 

[pardus]

Alot more serious in my mind is WTF were the enlisted personal doing/thinking?!
Rother's team leader, squad leader, pvts didn't know he was missing and say something???

Something seriously screwed up in the system for that to happen IMO. :2c:

Again, I don't know the particulars of this case but I would like to present a parallel situation. At the end of the day, commanders are responsible for everything that happens or does not happen in their command. In 1988 Lcpl Rother died in 29 Palms during a training exercise. He was a road guide/road guard and was posted without a buddy. His platoon commander doesn't keep good accountability of his Marines, packs up his platoon and doesn't realize he has left LCpl Rother behind until he is turning weapons into the armory two days later and comes up minus one. LCpl Rother ends up dying alone in the desert.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,956525,00.html

The platoon commander, company commander and battalion commander were all relieved of command. The real twist here is that the CO of the base (29 Palms) was passed over for a star because of it. The CO was Col John Ripley: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ripley_(USMC) You Army bubbas may remember he was recently inducted into the Ranger hall of fame. He was a Navy Cross, Silver Star, Bronze Star (2) and Purple Heart recipient and was considered a shoo in for General... until a Marine died on his base. Now LCpl Rother was assigned to 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marines which is based out Camp Lejeune and was in no way a part of Col Ripley's command but it cost Col Ripley his star anyway.

 

[Teufel]

The battalion commander, executive officer, company commander and platoon commander were relieved. The Company Commander and Platoon Commander were allowed to serve out their tour before being drummed out of the Corps. The squad leader and platoon sergeant and OIC were all court martialed. The OIC for the evolution was not the platoon commander, I believe he was the log-O and he was responsible for posting the guides. The enlisted Marines were both reduced to LCpl and the OIC was discharged and sentenced to four months in the brig.

 

[pardus]

I am a strong opponent of micro management and oversight, it destroys individual leadership and development.

 

[Ranger Psych]

I think things like that is why disjointed details that required multiple moving pieces were more likely to be assigned to homogeneous units, at least back in Batt. Ammo details that didn't get split up for different locations too heavily would just be random voluntolds, but anything like multiple road guard postings, etc would end up being squad or platoon. Team leaders are less likely to lose their teams, squad leaders their team leaders, etc. Noone was off till everyone got home.

Anyway, if this was a case of stuff being tossed in unbeknownst to them, it boils down to the fact that you can't expect what you don't inspect... and that you are responsible for what your men do or do not do. I hope if it's PC stupidity that is a kneejerk, that it gets cleaned up and properly rectified... but as is, it's in the news and stigma is a mo-fo.

 

[Looon]

. but as is, it's in the news and stigma is a mo-fo.

Yep. The damage is already done. If it does indeed turn out that they have been relieved unnecessarily, the damage is done.

It will all shake out in the end.......I hope.

 

[elle]

My advice to the two of them would be to find a lawyer steeped in military administrative law. Unless charges under MCM are preferred, a criminal defense attorney will not be an effective defense. I'd describe it as akin to doing CQB with AT-4's ("just because you can do something doesn't mean you should"). Right now, Jenio and Puckett are being attacked, not with litigation, but with a punitive evaluation. Even if the relief is determined to be unjustified, the best they can hope for is retirement at current grade and having the report expunged. If successful, it will be one of the best multi-thousand dollar expenses (each) they'll have expended.

All i can say is...tough sledding ahead for both.

I concur.

Having read the article and the comments that followed, it would be wise for both of these men to pay close attention to what's being posted by that newspaper's readers. Many of those comments are most certainly uninformed and reek of heresay. The free flowing character assassination could prove lucrative.

Though I haven't had the pleasure of meeting CSM Puckett in person, yet, I do know many of his Brothers and would stand by their word over any other.

 

[Rock42]

Its all Fluff and a cover up for a company commander of 2/508th who was killed 2 weeks ago. He was on a convoy that was hit, the convoy failed to let the hq know they were leaving. So it took nearly an hr to get air assets to them. 4 were killed, then 2 more in the recovery process.

Dont believe the hype, there is some mad juju in that structure. Jelawar is a mother fucker, people have been fighting for that chunk of dirt since time began.

 

[Centermass]

Its all Fluff and a cover up for a company commander of 2/508th who was killed 2 weeks ago.

Really?

You know this for a fact how?

The fact is that their removal was directly as a result of the PP presentation slide and had nothing to do with Cpt. Pena's death.

 

[Rock42]

I was in KAF, headed to OCCD on a convoy with A Co. Not dropping names here, Go on SIPR read the sigact.

 

[Centermass]

I was in KAF, headed to OCCD on a convoy with A Co. Not dropping names here, Go on SIPR read the sigact.

It may have overshadowed their relief. It had nothing to do with the other.

 

[Rock42]

Ok , Your right . Dropping it.

 

[car]

If you know what you're talking about, then please, tell what you can, when you can. If you're wolfing shit, then step down.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

The fact is that their removal was directly as a result of the PP presentation slide and had nothing to do with Cpt. Pena's death.

Where did that info come from, it's the first I have heard of that. I don't know anything outside of what was in the news about a Command claimant survey.

I am just intrested, not a need to know so if it's something thats "OPSEC/PERSEC" I don't have to know.

 

[cookie]

One of them is mine.

Don't know the LTC in question, but I do know CSM Puckett personally. He is one of the finest NCO's in the Army today, is the epitome, word for word of the Ranger Creed and one of the most exemplary, professional Warriors you will ever have the privilege of meeting or could possible serve with.

As Loon stated, this whole thing is akin to tossing the baby out with the bathwater / total PC horseshit.

The whole thing wreaks and is another reminder why I got out when I did rather than go on to the SMA at Bliss when that carrot was dangled in front of me.

Fuckin idiots.

While it may not mean anything I'd like to agree with your comments above. I knew of CSM Puckett when he was 1SG Puckett. If there were any real NCO's left in the Army, then he was one of them. I know the BDE commander and the CG of division and how they operate (had the absolute fanastic fortune to deal with them...read thick sarcasm). I'm not surprised they went with this decision. Meaning they are so hell bent on "fixing" the 82nd to its one glorious prestige that they could care less if they destroy it from within.

 

[Paddlefoot]

Could there have been friction between the Brigade Cmdr and the Bn Cmdr, and this gave him enough ammo to relieve him?

I agree with other posts, there has to be more to this than just an errant slide in a powerpoint presentation.