California Banning the sale of Gas Powered Automobiles

California's economy allows it to inflict massive changes in business and politics. It's a juggernaut. But its prosperity allows the people who run the states to make some really, really bad decisions. IMO this is one of them.

As the OP noted, California can't even keep the power on reliably in their state. California regularly experiences rolling blackouts which would impact the possibility of charging. Batteries aren't up to the task of efficiently storing all the power that would be necessary to keep all the lights on and charge all the cars. We can throw all the economic incentives at it that we want, we've already run up against a physics problem and I can't think of any tech on the horizon that will solve those issues.

So-called "clean" energy is expensive, and the people who are going to suffer in all of this is the poor.... and they will keep right on electing the same kind of people who create these kinds of policies.
 
California—the state that invented smog—seems to think it’s ozone layer is going to be less depleted than everybody else’s.

I’m sure the PRC, for example, the world’s largest emitter of greenhouse gasses and mercury, will be inspired by California’s environmental innovations.
 
California—the state that invented smog—seems to think it’s ozone layer is going to be less depleted than everybody else’s.

I’m sure the PRC, for example, the world’s largest emitter of greenhouse gasses and mercury, will be inspired by California’s environmental innovations.

How dare you escalate the rhetoric with your narrow-minded racist and xenophobic attacks, which have no doubt been caused by your sinful capitalist nature! Now I am off to display my military power....
 
Are you familiar with how the government operates at all? We actually have rapid transit options but the government is involved. Rail systems in particular are an archaic concept.

And who would fund this amazing fantasy?

Public transportation is really only viable in a handful of cities for a variety of reasons.
1. Yes. Don't be condescending. If you want to engage in a discussion or debate with an exchange of ideas, I'm your huckleberry. I will not be talked at like I am either a child or lacking in higher education. Control your tone, moving forward.

When I use the term rapid transit, I mean fast passenger transportation. I did not say we use our current, but made the suggestion we should upgrade the existing transportation options.

2. Like I said, funding would be both public and private. This can be on a federal level, state level, and city level depending on what is being implemented and who it is serving. Cross country = Federal. Cross state = State. Cross City = City. Public transportation is just like funding other infrastructure like highways, bridges and roads. Large employers would have an investment in this as well in the form of a corporate tax, as this provides them a more diverse workforce that can be brought in from other areas not centrally located to them.

Pubic Transportation infrastructure implementation and upgrades will create jobs and when running, assist the lower income brackets of our
society that may not be able to afford the conversion to electric cars (they can't afford cars now...) and/or create job opportunities they would
not have had w/out pubic transportation options.

3. And those reasons are? Please expound on your statements so that there is something that can be discussed. I'm all for learning which can't be done with blanket statements.


...
 
I think the biggest issue with the leader's and "thinker's", of the Green Religion; is the ignorance of modern nuclear. It's the only current technology that could provide enough energy to support any current emissions goals. That also ignores the complete redesign and construction of the entire grid.

Right or wrong(wrong) people are afraid of nuclear power.
 
Right or wrong(wrong) people are afraid of nuclear power.
For sure. People seem to have a near-pathological fear of nuclear power. And some of it justified (Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Fukushima). What's fascinating to me is the interests moving behind the scenes to promote green and denigrate nuclear in favor of their national interests.
 
For sure, when nuke goes wrong, it goes wrong bad.

Still, given then number of nuke power plants they still have a better safety profile and cleaner energy than just about anything else.*

*Per my bro-in-law, who was an electrical engineer with Duke Power.
 
So every time you post, everyone is supposed to spend 20 minutes combing over your old posts to find citations?

It’s almost like you don’t want to provide any facts to back up your claims, then cry “i AlReAdY pOsTeD tHeM, wItTy MaN!”

So with your logic- you can post anything, say “the sky is NOT blue.” When asked for proof, you can shield your self by hiding behind your supposed prior posts as evidence.

You may well have posted them, you may just be saying you did to be lazy and continue to try and spread your “alt right weaponized herpes mindset” without ever having to back up those “smooth brain” views.

So maybe just add some citations when you speak with your typical god-like authoritativeness.
Adventure Time Reaction GIF
 
1. Yes. Don't be condescending. If you want to engage in a discussion or debate with an exchange of ideas, I'm your huckleberry. I will not be talked at like I am either a child or lacking in higher education. Control your tone, moving forward.

When I use the term rapid transit, I mean fast passenger transportation. I did not say we use our current, but made the suggestion we should upgrade the existing transportation options.

2. Like I said, funding would be both public and private. This can be on a federal level, state level, and city level depending on what is being implemented and who it is serving. Cross country = Federal. Cross state = State. Cross City = City. Public transportation is just like funding other infrastructure like highways, bridges and roads. Large employers would have an investment in this as well in the form of a corporate tax, as this provides them a more diverse workforce that can be brought in from other areas not centrally located to them.

Pubic Transportation infrastructure implementation and upgrades will create jobs and when running, assist the lower income brackets of our
society that may not be able to afford the conversion to electric cars (they can't afford cars now...) and/or create job opportunities they would
not have had w/out pubic transportation options.

3. And those reasons are? Please expound on your statements so that there is something that can be discussed. I'm all for learning which can't be done with blanket statements.


...
My intent was not to be condescending but re-reading it, certainly see how you took it as such. My bad.

To the topic at hand, I’ll address a few of the issues but this post is ultimately going to be much longer than I want.

As I mentioned, outside a few major urban areas, public transit is proven not to be viable. If it were, there’d be private options just as there is with air transportation (in the early days, much of the public transit was actually privately owned). It’s not competitive from a cost or service perspective. Realities of such proposals simply trump the theoretical benefits. Every new rail project is plagued by massive cost overruns and lower than expected ridership, which is really a failure in estimation or a political unwillingness to recognize true cost. It’s actually a pretty disingenuous sales pitch. Ridership cannot sustain the massive operating costs. It requires huge public subsidy because the riders simply wouldn’t be able to afford a ticket if the actual costs were passed on – and still most systems can’t cover it.

Large employers won't contribute additional funding. If we learned one thing the past couple years, it’s that we don’t need to be physically present in large office spaces to be productive. Technology again has proven to be a huge game changer. Moreover, large employers aren’t looking for additional expenditures. They’re looking at tax incentives (read cuts) to locate their business in a given area as a tradeoff for providing a community with jobs.

As mentioned in my previous post, one of the huge challenges of rapid transit is the fact that rail is an archaic concept. Street cars died out for a reason. It’s also why Disney’s monorail of the future never took off. Rail is an inflexible solution. As population centers shift, rail is tied to an incredibly expensive and inflexible route. Express bus routes offer a significantly better solution; they utilize shared infrastructure with routes that are easily changed as demand shifts. Cities on the East Coast were largely built at a time (1800's) when people walked to places or traveled by horse and carriage. They’re more condensed in every way; walk Boston as an example. Most of the country is not like that. Communities were built differently. The area is much more vast. In terms of cross-country travel, I’ve used Amtrak several times. It’s slow and cumbersome, largely because it shares rails with freight. The only option is to have dedicated rail which would be insanely expensive to build with unsustainable ridership levels in the era of air travel. Empire Builder is one of Amtrak's most popular trains with 500K riders annually, yet, they only cover ~65% of it's current operating costs.

Another big challenge is that public transportation is not a point-to-point solution. It can’t be. It only provides a partial solution of delivery to a destination. For some, maybe that’s OK, others not so much. We also live in a society where flexibility is highly valued, again we realized this more with technology the past couple years. Time is money. Speed is life. Even with the best rapid transit solution, riders are still tied to it’s schedule, which may or may not align with their needs.

The subject of public transit also can’t ignore the public safety concerns that come with it as well, especially these days, but that can be an entire topic on it’s own. It does, however, impact ridership, which plays into the overall viability of these solutions.

Again, this was a longer post than I had planned but those are some of the key reasons that outside a few major urban areas these solutions remain unviable...and why I view it as a fantasy.

I may not agree with some of the conclusions of the article but it does a reasonably good job of laying out how we got to where we are:
Why Is American Mass Transit So Bad? It's a Long Story. - Bloomberg
 
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For sure, when nuke goes wrong, it goes wrong bad.

Still, given then number of nuke power plants they still have a better safety profile and cleaner energy than just about anything else.*

*Per my bro-in-law, who was an electrical engineer with Duke Power.
Yeah, the first sentence is my hang up.
Nuclear power plant accidents: listed and ranked since 1952

The bet on nuclear seems short-sided and comes with a whole host of potential Faustian bargains, many which will remain long after we're gone. Maybe that's why so many people are willing to make the trade-off?

The problem is that it probably provides the best solution to meet demand. I'm still not real comfortable with it but, unless the demand side of the equation changes, we're stuck until a better technology is discovered. Nonetheless, I don't like and honestly probably favor other solutions until that new technology is found.
 
Yeah, the first sentence is my hang up.
Nuclear power plant accidents: listed and ranked since 1952

The bet on nuclear seems short-sided and comes with a whole host of potential Faustian bargains, many which will remain long after we're gone. Maybe that's why so many people are willing to make the trade-off?

The problem is that it probably provides the best solution to meet demand. I'm still not real comfortable with it but, unless the demand side of the equation changes, we're stuck until a better technology is discovered. Nonetheless, I don't like and honestly probably favor other solutions until that new technology is found.

I think nuclear power, I think of the Zen Master..."we'll see...."
 
Yeah, the first sentence is my hang up.
Nuclear power plant accidents: listed and ranked since 1952

The bet on nuclear seems short-sided and comes with a whole host of potential Faustian bargains, many which will remain long after we're gone. Maybe that's why so many people are willing to make the trade-off?

The problem is that it probably provides the best solution to meet demand. I'm still not real comfortable with it but, unless the demand side of the equation changes, we're stuck until a better technology is discovered. Nonetheless, I don't like and honestly probably favor other solutions until that new technology is found.
What's interesting about that accident list is that only three took place in the US in my lifetime, and only one of those, Three Mile Island, was a major incident.

Compare that to major US oil disasters, or coal fires, or about anything else in the same time period, and the risk seems manageable.
 
What's interesting about that accident list is that only three took place in the US in my lifetime, and only one of those, Three Mile Island, was a major incident.

Compare that to major US oil disasters, or coal fires, or about anything else in the same time period, and the risk seems manageable.
To me, the difference is the lasting impact or potential lasting impact.

Ex.
Oil spill...terrible but area is relatively limited and impact, while it may last a couple decades, lessens significantly over that time.

Nuclear...much larger impact area and devastating local impact that may present hazard to surrounding environment for millennium. The worst part is that even after decommissioning, spent fuel/waste remains a potential hazard for, again, millennium. There is no way to shorten or lessen this impact.

That's not to suggest there aren't problems with the other solutions as well.

Geez, I almost sound like a luddite.
 
To me, the difference is the lasting impact or potential lasting impact.

Ex.
Oil spill...terrible but area is relatively limited and impact, while it may last a couple decades, lessens significantly over that time.

Nuclear...much larger impact area and devastating local impact that may present hazard to surrounding environment for millennium. The worst part is that even after decommissioning, spent fuel/waste remains a potential hazard for, again, millennium. There is no way to shorten or lessen this impact.

That's not to suggest there aren't problems with the other solutions as well.

Geez, I almost sound like a luddite.

Like I said, when it goes wrong, it goes wrong bad. BUT: truly renewable, clean, almost unlimited energy.

I agree with you regarding the impacts after decommissioning. That spent fuel is around literally forever.
 
To me, the difference is the lasting impact or potential lasting impact.

Ex.
Oil spill...terrible but area is relatively limited and impact, while it may last a couple decades, lessens significantly over that time.

Nuclear...much larger impact area and devastating local impact that may present hazard to surrounding environment for millennium. The worst part is that even after decommissioning, spent fuel/waste remains a potential hazard for, again, millennium. There is no way to shorten or lessen this impact.

That's not to suggest there aren't problems with the other solutions as well.

Geez, I almost sound like a luddite.
That's what I don't get about the climate alarmists (not you). If tHe WorLD Is GoinG To eND!!! in like 12 years if we don't Do SuMTHinG!! about climate change, then isn't it worth the risk to go nuclear?
 
I would like to see some advancement in the world of nuclear power....seems like the DOE is looking into it a bit. But, admittedly, I know little of this field.

"The US Department of Energy (DOE) has awarded USD36 million for 11 projects seeking to increase the use of nuclear power as a reliable source of clean energy and to limit the amount of radioactive waste produced from advanced reactors."

DOE funds for reducing advanced reactor wastes : Waste & Recycling - World Nuclear News
 
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