California Shooting.

[Diamondback 2/2]

Either way you cut it, its a terror attack.

Ninja assault suits. Check
Body Armor. Check
Load bearing assault vest. Check
Go bag with extra bang-bang-boom. Check
Primary and secondary weapons. Check
Pipe bombs. Check
GoPro camera to film the carnage. Check

They had enough crap on them, after the initial shooting to sustain more attacks, and by the looks, that's probably what they planned to do. The fact that they got in, did their killing and got out before LE responded tells me they had planned this a lot. Was it religious motivated? Probably, but you are right, we don't know for sure yet. However, its a terror attack, if looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a good indication that its a duck.

The real indication for me is CAIR (a recognized terrorist supporting group) coming out ahead of the "Muslims did it bomb" (big shocker) and condemned it, and claimed it stands with the American people, with a smirk on their faces. This puts me firmly in the camp of "this was a straight up Islamic based attack, by radical's".

My .02

 

[SpitfireV]

The gear doesn't necessarily make it a terrorist attack- it can be an indicator but the real kicker is motive.

Else you could say the Hollywood Bank robbers were terrorists.

Facts are what is important here

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I understand what you're saying, but yet again, it doesn't take a DNA test to figure out if this is a duck.

 

[racing_kitty]

The gear doesn't necessarily make it a terrorist attack- it can be an indicator but the real kicker is motive.

Else you could say the Hollywood Bank robbers were terrorists.

Facts are what is important here

The argument has been made on this very board that all mass shootings are terrorism, to fuck all with the motivation behind it. Do you disagree with that because it was a Muslim shooter? Or do you disagree for another reason? Or do you agree? Just because no religious motive has been assigned yet doesn't mean it's not terror.

Tim McVeigh was agnostic.

 

[DA SWO]

The gear doesn't necessarily make it a terrorist attack- it can be an indicator but the real kicker is motive.

Else you could say the Hollywood Bank robbers were terrorists.

Facts are what is important here

Can't say the PP attack was terror and this isn't.

 

[Brill]

Can't say the PP attack was terror and this isn't.

Did the Joint Terrorism Task force help with that investigation?

 

[RetPara]

"My money is on these guys being ISIS wannabes. I bet they got kitted out to plan an attack, but aren't actually connected to ISIS. Then Syed gets triggered by something at the Christmas party and blows the plan by moving ahead of schedule. This would explain the lack of suicide vests, and why they only hit one place, while also explaining why they had so much gear and seemed to know what they were doing."

That follows with the franchising of AQ. There is enough literature and information on the web that radicalization is possible. Also what mosque the attitudes of the local Iman's play writ large.

This morning it is being reported that the male was attending a work holiday party and got into an argument with someone and then left. Later he returned fully kitted up with his wife. The room the party was in was specifically targeted. The couple had left their six month old infant with a family member earlier in the morning. Somewhat different than the usual work place violence where some one gets pissed, goes to their car and comes back with a pistol.

This was planned before I believe. Thankfully they screwed up their by leaving their local hide site before the intense search ring had expanded enough. It will be interesting to see where that was and if it was an error or if something 'flushed' them out.

 

[Rapid]

Dating profile for one of them:

22 yr. old Male Government Employee from California USA looking for M…

"religios but modern family of 4, 2girls 2boys I work for county as health,safety and envorimental inspector. Enjoy working on vintage and modern cars, read religios books, enjoy eating out sometimes travel and just hang out in back yard doing target pratice with younger sister and friends."

 

[Red-Dot]

I wonder if any of the victims or people in the immediate area were armed. I seriously doubt it. And if someone would have been carrying, this thing may have had a totally different outcome.

 

[SpitfireV]

The argument has been made on this very board that all mass shootings are terrorism, to fuck all with the motivation behind it. Do you disagree with that because it was a Muslim shooter? Or do you disagree for another reason? Or do you agree? Just because no religious motive has been assigned yet doesn't mean it's not terror.

Tim McVeigh was agnostic.

Yes but McVeigh had a political motive, hence terrorism. I just don't like to see the word bandied about for every conceivable crime like it often seems to be. It should be used for legitimate cases in order to preserve the integrity of the impact of the term.

Not all mass shootings are terrorism. What about the guy who just shoots up his workplace because he's pissed off? There's no political motive there, it's just anger.

I do believe that the terrorism term is bandied about far too often, usually by politicos who are out to score points.

If you read my post you'll see that I've also said that, prima facie, this *appears* to be Islamic terrorism but I was just calling for a bit more info.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Authorities on Thursday were trying to learn why a couple left behind their infant daughter and carried out a shooting rampage that left 14 people dead and seriously wounded more than a dozen others in one of the nation's worst mass shootings.

Hmmm...let me think about that a bit... :whatever:

http://www.startribune.com/14-dead-17-wounded-in-california-shooting-2-suspects-dead/360331841/#1

 

[Gunz]

Just snapped off the TV with disgust after surfing news channels and hearing nothing but ban-the-guns anti-NRA-rhetoric coming from all except Fox News which actually used the word "Muslim" to describe the shooters.

 

[The Hate Ape]

I feel like we could explore the motivations of the USG for pushing the terrorism label aside: is it possible that IOT prevent/dissuade copy-cat maneuvers the USG is downplaying the incident?

It would be a smart move, despite what is obvious to us - the same cannot be said for the majority. People really would be convinced that this is a simple workplace dispute. Further attacks by legit lahkbars would also be second-guessed because of how this one got covered. No matter how stupidly and painfully obvious this is to many - pulling the how to deal with a 2y/o tantrum is a workable IO tactic.

Regardless, those people were into some bad shit.

 

[Totentanz]

The gear doesn't necessarily make it a terrorist attack- it can be an indicator but the real kicker is motive.

Else you could say the Hollywood Bank robbers were terrorists.

Facts are what is important here

On it's own, you're right. But it indicates at the very least the idea that this had some significant planning put into it. It's circumstantial and the methodology and goals will indicate whether or not it was a terrorist attack (of which the preparation will be a component).

BTW, fuck CAIR. They're Pakistan with 501(c)(3) status...

RIP to the deceased and a speedy recovery to the injured.

 

[RetPara]

Back in the 1920's the US government made a conscious decision to legally describe terrorist acts on US soil, not as terrorism, but murder and so forth. The Patriot Act changed that to some degree. Still, when the label of terrorism is used there are legal and policy ramifications mandated in the government. The waffling is to avoid the ramifications.

 

[AWP]

Cynically, I want to start a "dead pool" for the duration of this story. How long will it take before we find another lead for that Calgon moment? "Take me away."

 

[x SF med]

RIP to the murdered, and wishes for full recovery to the injured.

I'm not convinced enough facts are in to decide this case yet, but I would lean toward a radicalized group planning and executing the attack - it was too clean, and too quick. Syed Farouk was an employee of the targeted area, possibly the inside man (until we know if the other male shooter was also employed there) for the operation. All indicators point to a planned and practiced attack on this state government agency.

It sickens me that our government focuses on legal gun ownership in these cases, before any thought of the victims, the peace officers, or gaining facts about the incident itself.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I wonder if any of the victims or people in the immediate area were armed. I seriously doubt it. And if someone would have been carrying, this thing may have had a totally different outcome.

I think about this often. Remember those Texas douche-bags who went into the Chipotle's? Today I'd think...FUCK!?! They sure as hell look like a threat, but I guess I'm supposed to wait until they open fire before I shoot back. My SIG is not much of a match unless I get the jump on them...

 

[AWP]

Those two just look like clownshoes and are one reason why I'm against open carry. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

[Devildoc]

That follows with the franchising of AQ. There is enough literature and information on the web that radicalization is possible. Also what mosque the attitudes of the local Iman's play writ large.

This morning it is being reported that the male was attending a work holiday party and got into an argument with someone and then left. Later he returned fully kitted up with his wife. The room the party was in was specifically targeted. The couple had left their six month old infant with a family member earlier in the morning. Somewhat different than the usual work place violence where some one gets pissed, goes to their car and comes back with a pistol.

This was planned before I believe. Thankfully they screwed up their by leaving their local hide site before the intense search ring had expanded enough. It will be interesting to see where that was and if it was an error or if something 'flushed' them out.

Definitely. There was a plan. As if the rest of the physical evidence was not enough, a house full of IEDs/materials should underscore that if something wasn't supposed to happen at that place and time, something was being planned to happen somewhere, some time.