California Shooting.

[Ooh-Rah]

Those two just look like clownshoes and are one reason why I'm against open carry. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Completely agree. And to me, they look like stereotypical high school kids who get picked on and play too much air soft. I see them walk into a business looking like that, every alarm bell I have goes into overload.

Which brings me back to my original point, when are you allowed to "Protect yourself?" Just watching the chatter on The other board I follow, my prediction is that someplace in the future someone legally carrying is going to proactively shoot someone they thought were a threat. They're going to turn out not to be a threat, and then shit will really get ugly.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Edit: Bad info.

 

[RetPara]

a house full of IEDs/materials should underscore that

Would not push that point too far... My barracks room in the 82nd always had a shit load cleaning supplies the 1SG couldn't figure out what I was using them for.....

 

[AWP]

Which brings me back to my original point, when are you allowed to "Protect yourself?" Just watching the chatter on The other board I follow, my prediction is that someplace in the future someone legally carrying is going to proactively shoot someone they thought were a threat. They're going to turn out not to be a threat, and then shit will really get ugly.

Or when you call them out and even though they respond with "We can legally carry" who actually shrugs and walks away? Who doesn't keep one eye on those guys, guys you don't know or trust? How does that situation not escalate?

We're probably better off taking this to the gun thread though.

 

[DA SWO]

Definitely. There was a plan. As if the rest of the physical evidence was not enough, a house full of IEDs/materials should underscore that if something wasn't supposed to happen at that place and time, something was being planned to happen somewhere, some time.

Funny (not) how the IEDs are not being played up, guess extra gun laws wouldn't stop an IED maker.

Just wait until we get Iraq style IEDs going off, then the sheep may start to stir.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

CNN.com running with headline-
"A link to terrorism"

Officials: San Bernardino shooter appears radicalized - CNN.com

 

[Rapid]

CNN.com running with headline-
"A link to terrorism"

Officials: San Bernardino shooter appears radicalized - CNN.com

Syed Rizwan Farook -- one-half of the couple behind the San Bernardino shooting massacre -- was apparently radicalized and in touch with people being investigated by the FBI for international terrorism, law enforcement officials said Thursday.

Still, it wasn't necessarily the only driver behind the carnage, as workplace grievances may have also played a role. President Barack Obama hinted as much Thursday when he said that the attackers may have had "mixed motives."

Wow. Holy shit. Fucking kill yourselves, you worthless cunts. Even when it's right there in front of them, they still try to spin it.

No, being triggered and carrying out the attack early is not an 'alternative motive'. It's called a fuck up. Quite frankly, we're lucky they DID snap and didn't plan this out even better.

Explosives at California shooters' home - BBC News

Bomb equipment, weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition were found at the home of the San Bernardino shooters, US police have said.

 

[AWP]

An interesting article about violence in that city.
San Bernardino Residents: The City Had Pretty Awful Gun Violence Before Today | VICE News

To sum it up:

In the 1980s and 90s, the city was known as a "murder capital," a police spokesman said last year. Crime dropped after that, but in 2012, the city was forced to declare bankruptcy; that year, the murder rate rose 50 percent as city services were cut back.

Andreas Montalvo, who works at a Shell gas station near the facility, told VICE News he hears at least one gun shot a day as a result of gang activity.

Until police started showing up this was just another day in San Bernandino. Take a violent area and add other variables to the mix, it shouldn't surprise anyone this happened. With the quoted link to terrorism was this guy given a green light (did he start a fight to give the act some "cover") or was he triggered and carried out his plans before they were finalized? He clearly planned and prepared, but was it supposed to happen yesterday?

 

[Devildoc]

Wow. Holy shit. Fucking kill yourselves, you worthless cunts. Even when it's right there in front of them, they still try to spin it.

No, being triggered and carrying out the attack early is not an 'alternative motive'. It's called a fuck up. Quite frankly, we're lucky they DID snap and didn't plan this out even better.

Explosives at California shooters' home - BBC News

Bomb equipment, weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition were found at the home of the San Bernardino shooters, US police have said.

My views on "workplace violence" based on what the eyewitnesses saw. When these things happen witnesses tend to overthink what they saw and heard. They see things as they think they see them. They get led by the po-po in questioning (i.e, "did he seem angry to you?"). That's why eyewitnesses stink on the stand. Fallible memory and all. I would have to think that if my colleagues were getting gunned down, with that noise, chaos, blood, screaming, their interpretations of events would be sketchy at best. Anywho, that's my take on people say the POS was "getting angry."

My opinion is we have not scratched the surface of this thing, but POTUS will be hard-pressed to man-up and call it what it is.

 

[Gunz]

Wow. Holy shit. Fucking kill yourselves, you worthless cunts. Even when it's right there in front of them, they still try to spin it.

The fear of offending Muslims only makes it easier for jihadist fucks like this to carry out their plans.

 

[SpitfireV]

Wow. Holy shit. Fucking kill yourselves, you worthless cunts. Even when it's right there in front of them, they still try to spin it.

No, being triggered and carrying out the attack early is not an 'alternative motive'. It's called a fuck up. Quite frankly, we're lucky they DID snap and didn't plan this out even better.

Explosives at California shooters' home - BBC News

Bomb equipment, weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition were found at the home of the San Bernardino shooters, US police have said.

That's fucked. I'd call it possibly a contributing motive but not the primary (or even a secondary one).

 

[SpitfireV]

On it's own, you're right. But it indicates at the very least the idea that this had some significant planning put into it. It's circumstantial and the methodology and goals will indicate whether or not it was a terrorist attack (of which the preparation will be a component).

Ya exactly, which is why I said it was an indicator.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

And this thread has evolved into:

Read an Allen West article that the FBI is putting out that the couple had been in contact with known international terrorist on their watch list.

No matter how you want to spin it, word it, the bottom line is that this was a Islamic based terror attack...period.

 

[SpitfireV]

Not sure if that was directed at me. I haven't tried to spin it into anything it isn't- I just called for some restraint before the major facts were known.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Absolutely, but not in a mean way, more of a funny way. Hope that's how it came across as that was my intention.

 

[Brill]

It sickens me that our government focuses on legal gun ownership in these cases, before any thought of the victims, the peace officers, or gaining facts about the incident itself.

Interesting that ALL of the Democrat candidates to include Big O blamed guns, NRA, etc whereas ALL Republican candidates expressed sympathy and prayers for both the victims and first responders.

 

[AWP]

I like the way the narrative played out:

Hrrrrr, we need more gun laws!
This violence has to end!
We'll give you more hashtags to end violence!

Uh, guys? This wasn't JUST workplace violence, it was clearly planned.
We...we....need more gun control!
Yeah, they made contact with terrorists.
Uh....why do we give guns to terrorists?!
They were legally purchased.
(crickets) GUN CONTROL!

This would be sad if it wasn't for the dead and the utterly flawed and broken, emotional "logic" playing out in the aftermath.

 

[Blizzard]

On a somewhat different note, does it bother anyone else that so much of the police actions were broadcast in the clear, real-time?

A number here followed the incident on scanners as it unfolded (look back a page or so) but this seems ripe for problems, especially as society becomes more tech savvy and feeds become more widely available. Hell, most news channels had aerial video along with the scanner audio in real-time.

I know numerous PD's do encrypt transmissions and it's not without it's own set of issues but it's a department by department thing. However, broadcasting that 'so-and-so is headed over to #### street' or 'we need a Bearcat to come in from the East from XXXX' or 'so in so is are sitting ducks until help arrives', as they did in San Bernadino just doesn't make a lot of sense, especially for officer safety.

To me, this runs in-line with our politicians that out teams and missions just hours after they've completed. The release of info in these instances should really be buttoned up.

 

[AWP]

On a somewhat different note, does it bother anyone else that so much of the police actions were broadcast in the clear, real-time?

A number here followed the incident on scanners as it unfolded (look back a page or so) but this seems ripe for problems, especially as society becomes more tech savvy and feeds become more widely available. Hell, most news channels had aerial video along with the scanner audio in real-time.

I know numerous PD's encrypt transmissions and it's not without it's own set of issues and the is a department by department thing. However, broadcasting that 'so-and-so is headed over to #### street' or 'we need a Bearcat to come in from the East from XXXX' or 'so in so is are sitting ducks until help arrives', as they did in San Bernadino just doesn't make a lot of sense, especially for officer safety.

To me, this runs in-line with our politicians that out teams and missions just hours after they've completed. The release of info in these instances should really be buttoned up.

As a radio guy I am 100% on board. I know @ke4gde did some work installing police comm systems, so maybe he can chime in (also as an end user), but my take is simple:
Instead of getting old MRAP's or helos or whatever, why didn't departments spend Federal money on encryption? Even low level stuff, or frequency hopping, could prevent/ minimize what's described above.

I'd honestly rather know every PD's comms were encrypted than see LEO's carrying enough gear to assault Fallujah.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

@Blizzard - I was thinking the same thing as I was listening to it (and posting what I thought were relevant updates) - there were times that they would move to a secure channel or ask 'so-and-so' to call them on cell phone to communicate more sensitive info - One example being after they had the gun fight with the black SUV; soon after they wanted SWAT to head to a specific address - I'm guessing it was the address of killers - but that was broadcast via a different avenue; not publicly. Yes though...there did seem to be too much detail out there...