Can you really come out of Army basic an E4?
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
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Fellatio and waivers. Nothing more.
I went through EOD school with a corporal. He thought he was hot shit because he was a corporal, combat arms, etc etc. Never mind that we justifiably called him CPL Crisco. He graduated from Eglin as a corporal, and was back to being a specialist as soon as he finished in-processing his gaining post (hell, he was STILL sitting at E-4 with a weight problem when my name came out on the E-6 list). You see, Army EOD doesn't have any slots for corporals. You're either a sergeant, or you aren't. There's no gray area. The responsibilities inherent with each rank make it that way.
There are other units that simply don't allow for corporals, either. Throughout my time in signal, the only corporals I saw in my battalion were the NBC NCO for Charlie Co., and a mechanic and a TACSAT guy in my company. That was it. Otherwise, they were most likely in a combat arms MOS that my tropo van was stuck supporting.
I've seen quite a few privates fast track to E-5, too. That comes from never going to the field because you're getting all the schools, and actually having time to study flash cards for board after board, after board in between all the waivers that for TIS/TIG were applied for. Strictly political, and it pissed me off.
pardus
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Yeah, must have been.
Also in the Guard when you enlist your TIS and TIG starts immediately, and you may not ship to basic for 6mths or more, all the while TIS/TIG is ticking by...
Back in the late 80s, I worked with a guy who got out of the Army as a SSgt after 8 years or so. He then joined the Corps (because he was a dumb ass who couldn't support his wife and five kids in the outside world) and came in as a corporal. Didn't go to boot camp; they sent him to corporal's course and from there straight to the fleet. We used to fuck with him and tell him he wasn't a real Marine because he didn't go to boot camp.
He used to claim that corporal's course was the same as boot camp.
I've had two AD Signal NCO's complain to me, this is across a decade no less, that the shitbirds who don't know their jobs won't deploy. Don't deploy = more time to study, more time for a Bach. degree, etc. and that = better promotion rates for shitbirds.
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Hmmm I don't doubt it; waivers were used for E1-E4, but I never even heard of them being discussed for NCO promotions. Interesting...
The Guard is it's own beast. Active duty, I didn't see it happen. Most of the college educated E-4's were a little more mature and smarter than your average 18 year old private. They made great soldiers in my book, but had a hard time adjusting to not being in charge (yes, kind of like you are saying) and it's a stop gap measure to recruit them instead of having them go as officers. The officer route is a far better deal for college educated individuals. Of course I think ALL officers should be enlisted first, but that is a different argument.
Reed
I started basic as an E-3, and when I hit SFQC immediately got promoted to E-4 (I had already been to BAC and a couple of leadership schools while in College).
Way back when you could graduate college and not go officer and be an E-4. I never applied my college and went in as a E-1.
I'm in the target group being discussed and I don't personally feel I'll be an inferior NCO when the time comes. However, that probably has a great deal to do with where I am.
it's not so much waivers as having someone shit hot and secondary zone capable, considering you only need 16 months TIS to get your SGT (and E-5 in/around 2 years isn't unheard of in Regiment if there's positions and you're shit hot tabbed and obliterate any obstacles in your path).
pardus
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Clearly Rangers are above and beyond my statement that an E4 is a bad place to start/bad foundation for an NCO.
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To be further clarify, a bad foundation doesn't mean that's a guarantee of a bad NCO.
Wait till the drawdown really hits..... and the TIS and TIG numbers go through the roof, points go back up to the 900-999 range and waivers get denied due to TO&E requirements being enforces along with every other requirement.... been there... ain't pretty. People have gotten used to accelerated promotions due to the OPTEMPO... the Combat Arms, 7 in 7 and 8 in 9, is going away... and it is not going to be pretty.
Yep lowest points I saw while in 850
990 for 91B (now 68W), 999 for 11B, No TO&E for Cpl to SGT in 18 Series... needed a waiver from SOCOM to get to the board... and there were guys in front of me. by the time I got to the board.... I definitely had TIS/TIG, schools, PLDC, BNOC and good evals... But my PT score was only a 289, because I am not a runner...
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