That's exactly what I did when the "mad arab" altered the eval my immediate superior had done on my work. When I walked into her office her first words were, "I want you to know that I did not write this"
Case Study: Sun Tzu, III/31
- Thread starter Marauder06
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If they are a big enough dirt bag to write blatantly false counseling statements, then NO, it does not reflect poorly on the individual refusing to sign. It once cost me dearly to sign a false counseling statement, even though I wrote that it was untrue in the block below, and saved my bacon later, when I refused to sign a different false counseling statement. It would reflect poorly if the individual refused to sign a counseling statement that was not untrue.
The AFSPs were pretty pissed at me when they made me write a statement, read me my rights, then told me to sign. Above my signature I wrote "I was not read my rights prior to making this statement".
Just to make sure I'm not an idiot, by "Chief" you mean "Chief Warrant Officer", right?
Just to make sure I'm not an idiot, by "Chief" you mean "Chief Warrant Officer", right?
:) Roger, in the Army "Chief" is the proper abbreviated rank title for chief warrant officers (i.e. W2 and above).
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LOL. This was another thing I used to do. The whack jobs in HR would come up with a new policy overnight that directly contradicted some other policy and then walk the paper around to everyone and make them sign that they read and agreed to the new policy.The AFSPs were pretty pissed at me when they made me write a statement, read me my rights, then told me to sign. Above my signature I wrote "I was not read my rights prior to making this statement".
I would cross stuff out like, "I have read and understand..." and write in things like, "I was given 10 minutes to read this and forced to sign or lose my job." Or, "I asked if I could have a copy for my attorney to review and was refused."
Roger, in the Army "Chief" is the proper abbreviated rank title for chief warrant officers (i.e. W2 and above).
I had my ass handed to me by a Marine Corps Chief Warrant Officer 2 from the EOD Company on my first day in theater, because the team we were conducting changeover with failed to disclose the customs and courtesies for the term "Chief" regarding Marines Corps and Naval personnel. Needless to say, a CWO is always a "Warrant Officer/Chief Warrant Officer" regardless of service branch now.
Interesting, maybe they do it differently in the sea services. My experience in the Army has been that warrant officers are almost indifferent to being called "Chief" or "Mister" (which is the correct form of address for a WO1). I've never heard of, seen, or experienced any blowback from an Army warrant officer in the grade of W2 or above when addressed as "Chief." But I also know we have a site member who is a CW5, maybe he can chime in on the subject. I hate to think I've been doing it wrong all these years. :)
From what I learned that day, "Chief" refers to Navy Senior Enlisted while Marine Corps Warrant Officers are referred to with full title of "Warrant Officer/Chief Warrant Officer". Same logic behind why a Marine Staff Sergeant isn't referred to as a Sergeant. So in order to avoid repeating that debacle, I got into the habit of using "Warrant Officer/Chief Warrant Officer" for every member of the Warrant Officer Corps until told otherwise.
That makes a lot of sense, I can see why there would be confusion.
Can you see my confusion as to WHY YOU ARE SEEING CONFUSION INSTEAD OF POSTING THE NEXT INSTALLMENT OF THIS CASE STUDY? oh darn..did my caps lock stick? :-"
When I was growing up...
Chief: Navy CPO
Warrant Officer: Warrant Officer
Gunner: Marine Gunner or Warrant Officer you knew well
Faith and the junior NCOs from the SCIF had a great chat for about 40 minutes before MSG Slacker and a very petulant-looking Chief Dodger entered the room. Actually, Faith only assumed it was Chief Dodger; the other man was dressed in blue jeans and a t-shirt, and had a three-day-growth of beard. Faith also noticed he was wearing an earring in his left ear. When he came in the room, the junior NCOs stopped talking immediately. The tension was palpable.
“Chief Dodger, I presume?” Faith inquired “Glad to finally meet you. I’m Captain Faith, and I’m now…”
“This better be good, to take me away from ACAPing,” Dodger interrupted, glowering at Faith. Faith hadn’t expected this type of direct challenge. To act this conspicuously disrespectful in front of all of these troops, Chief Dodger had to have some kind of “get out of jail free” card up his sleeve. Or, Faith mused, he was bluffing. Time to find out which it actually was.
“Well, I was going to ask to speak to you and MSG Slacker about that later, but since you brought it up, I did some checking and all ACAP means is that I allow you to go to two formal ACAP briefings, and I cut you some slack for interviews and end-of-career-related issues like interviews. It does NOT mean “free leave for six months.” Also, I’m fairly certain that even when you’re on leave, the Group has a policy about no earrings for men.” Faith paused for a moment, but Dodger didn’t immediately respond. “So, unless you’re signed out on leave, I expect everyone to be at their place of duty, in the proper uniform, on every duty day. Starting now, that means 0630, PT formation. EVERYONE.” Faith added emphatically. “Even profiles. After accountability formation, profiles and anyone else who needs to can fall out, the rest can do PT with me. MSG Slacker, before the end of the day today I want to see an outline of the PT plan for the next ten days.”
“Roger, sir,” MSG Slacker said, unhesitatingly.
“Why am I going to come to PT?” Chief Dodger challenged, “Am I going to be doing pushups and a two-mile run in my retirement?”
Faith was stunned for a second, he didn’t expect to hear something like this from a chief warrant officer.
“No, you’re going to do PT because it’s expected of you as a Soldier in the United States Army, and because that is your designated place of duty for tomorrow at 0630,” Faith said rationally.
“I don’t have time for this,” Chief Dodger said irritably. “Look, Captain Fake or whatever your name is, I don’t work for you. If you have a problem with me, you can take it up with my company commander. Otherwise, I’m ACAP-ing. Bye,” he said waving a hand dismissively towards Faith and turning towards the door.
“Hold on a second, Chief,” Faith said in a manner that was neither pleading nor imperative. “There are a couple of things you ought to know first.”
With a hand on the door, Chief Dodger paused and looked at Faith.
“What you missed by being late for my meeting, was me explaining to all of these nice people here,” Faith began, gesturing towards the assembled junior NCOs, “That as of 1600 today, I am the commander of the Group MID, and I am also in charge of everyone who works in the SCIF, by order of the DCO.” Faith paused for a moment and placed his fingers together in front of his face pensively, as he considered what to say next.
“You also missed me explaining to everyone how we’re going to need to make some changes and some major decisions around here. And, my first major decision is… to tell you that you’re right, Chief Dodger.” Faith paused dramatically. “You don’t work for me. You are a sorry excuse for an officer, and I will not have your toxic leadership contaminating my company and degrading the support we provide this Group. You’re welcome to leave my office now, and go on downstairs and clean out your desk. You can turn in your SCIF badge to MSG Slacker, and tomorrow morning, when you’re not “ACAP-in,” Faith made air quotes around “ACAP-ing,” “then you can report to the Group HHC first sergeant. I’ve got no further use for you.”
Then Chief Dodger did something that Faith didn’t expect. He laughed. Not a jovial, mirthful laugh but a deep, malicious growl of a laugh.
“You’re a joke,” he said to Faith. “I was here long before you got here, and I’ll be here long after. You think you’re getting rid of me, but before it’s over, I’m going to be getting rid of you.”
“That’s great Chief,” Faith retorted, “Now please don’t let the door to the MID hit you on the ass on the way out. If you’ll excuse us, the rest of us have some work to do.”
“Fuck you,” Chief Dodger said. “Sir,” he added as he walked out and slammed the door to Faith’s office.
“Stay classy, Chief,” Faith said, not really meaning to. But he noticed that the comment caused some of the NCOs present to smile.
“Ladies and gentlemen,” Faith said, “there have been a lot of things very wrong in our unit for a long time. Things are not going to get better overnight, but with all of us working together, they will get better. I look forward to working with you and earning your trust and respect over the next several months. The one thing I need you to do is, get with the program,” he said, “or get the fuck out. I can’t make it any plainer than that. I have a number of friends over in Division who would LOVE to have more bodies to feed into conventional infantry battalions heading to Iraq or Afghanistan for 18 months. So if you’d rather do that than do your FUCKING JOBS AS LEADERS here, all you have to do is say the word. I hope you will stay and help make the 2nd Group MID the best MID in USASOC. But if you don’t what to do what it takes to make it that way, then all you have to do is say so.”
"Look," Faith continued, "All I'm expecting of you at this point is basic Army standards. Come to PT. Do your jobs. Put in a full day of work for a full day of pay. Don't tell your company commander to fuck off." This comment brought a couple of nervous laughs. "You know, things like that."
No one responded. Several individuals looked at each other nervously, but the majority, Faith noticed, seemed to be… beaming. That was encouraging.
“OK, I think we’re all done here,” Faith concluded. You ladies and gentlemen have a nice day, I’ll see all of you at PT tomorrow morning, 0630. You’re dismissed. Oh, and MSG Slacker, please make sure you get Chief Dodger’s badge and that his desk is cleaned out before you go home today. I’ll be here in my office when you’re done with that PT plan. Thanks.”
Now, Faith thought, I can finally call my wife.
“Chief Dodger, I presume?” Faith inquired “Glad to finally meet you. I’m Captain Faith, and I’m now…”
“This better be good, to take me away from ACAPing,” Dodger interrupted, glowering at Faith. Faith hadn’t expected this type of direct challenge. To act this conspicuously disrespectful in front of all of these troops, Chief Dodger had to have some kind of “get out of jail free” card up his sleeve. Or, Faith mused, he was bluffing. Time to find out which it actually was.
“Well, I was going to ask to speak to you and MSG Slacker about that later, but since you brought it up, I did some checking and all ACAP means is that I allow you to go to two formal ACAP briefings, and I cut you some slack for interviews and end-of-career-related issues like interviews. It does NOT mean “free leave for six months.” Also, I’m fairly certain that even when you’re on leave, the Group has a policy about no earrings for men.” Faith paused for a moment, but Dodger didn’t immediately respond. “So, unless you’re signed out on leave, I expect everyone to be at their place of duty, in the proper uniform, on every duty day. Starting now, that means 0630, PT formation. EVERYONE.” Faith added emphatically. “Even profiles. After accountability formation, profiles and anyone else who needs to can fall out, the rest can do PT with me. MSG Slacker, before the end of the day today I want to see an outline of the PT plan for the next ten days.”
“Roger, sir,” MSG Slacker said, unhesitatingly.
“Why am I going to come to PT?” Chief Dodger challenged, “Am I going to be doing pushups and a two-mile run in my retirement?”
Faith was stunned for a second, he didn’t expect to hear something like this from a chief warrant officer.
“No, you’re going to do PT because it’s expected of you as a Soldier in the United States Army, and because that is your designated place of duty for tomorrow at 0630,” Faith said rationally.
“I don’t have time for this,” Chief Dodger said irritably. “Look, Captain Fake or whatever your name is, I don’t work for you. If you have a problem with me, you can take it up with my company commander. Otherwise, I’m ACAP-ing. Bye,” he said waving a hand dismissively towards Faith and turning towards the door.
“Hold on a second, Chief,” Faith said in a manner that was neither pleading nor imperative. “There are a couple of things you ought to know first.”
With a hand on the door, Chief Dodger paused and looked at Faith.
“What you missed by being late for my meeting, was me explaining to all of these nice people here,” Faith began, gesturing towards the assembled junior NCOs, “That as of 1600 today, I am the commander of the Group MID, and I am also in charge of everyone who works in the SCIF, by order of the DCO.” Faith paused for a moment and placed his fingers together in front of his face pensively, as he considered what to say next.
“You also missed me explaining to everyone how we’re going to need to make some changes and some major decisions around here. And, my first major decision is… to tell you that you’re right, Chief Dodger.” Faith paused dramatically. “You don’t work for me. You are a sorry excuse for an officer, and I will not have your toxic leadership contaminating my company and degrading the support we provide this Group. You’re welcome to leave my office now, and go on downstairs and clean out your desk. You can turn in your SCIF badge to MSG Slacker, and tomorrow morning, when you’re not “ACAP-in,” Faith made air quotes around “ACAP-ing,” “then you can report to the Group HHC first sergeant. I’ve got no further use for you.”
Then Chief Dodger did something that Faith didn’t expect. He laughed. Not a jovial, mirthful laugh but a deep, malicious growl of a laugh.
“You’re a joke,” he said to Faith. “I was here long before you got here, and I’ll be here long after. You think you’re getting rid of me, but before it’s over, I’m going to be getting rid of you.”
“That’s great Chief,” Faith retorted, “Now please don’t let the door to the MID hit you on the ass on the way out. If you’ll excuse us, the rest of us have some work to do.”
“Fuck you,” Chief Dodger said. “Sir,” he added as he walked out and slammed the door to Faith’s office.
“Stay classy, Chief,” Faith said, not really meaning to. But he noticed that the comment caused some of the NCOs present to smile.
“Ladies and gentlemen,” Faith said, “there have been a lot of things very wrong in our unit for a long time. Things are not going to get better overnight, but with all of us working together, they will get better. I look forward to working with you and earning your trust and respect over the next several months. The one thing I need you to do is, get with the program,” he said, “or get the fuck out. I can’t make it any plainer than that. I have a number of friends over in Division who would LOVE to have more bodies to feed into conventional infantry battalions heading to Iraq or Afghanistan for 18 months. So if you’d rather do that than do your FUCKING JOBS AS LEADERS here, all you have to do is say the word. I hope you will stay and help make the 2nd Group MID the best MID in USASOC. But if you don’t what to do what it takes to make it that way, then all you have to do is say so.”
"Look," Faith continued, "All I'm expecting of you at this point is basic Army standards. Come to PT. Do your jobs. Put in a full day of work for a full day of pay. Don't tell your company commander to fuck off." This comment brought a couple of nervous laughs. "You know, things like that."
No one responded. Several individuals looked at each other nervously, but the majority, Faith noticed, seemed to be… beaming. That was encouraging.
“OK, I think we’re all done here,” Faith concluded. You ladies and gentlemen have a nice day, I’ll see all of you at PT tomorrow morning, 0630. You’re dismissed. Oh, and MSG Slacker, please make sure you get Chief Dodger’s badge and that his desk is cleaned out before you go home today. I’ll be here in my office when you’re done with that PT plan. Thanks.”
Now, Faith thought, I can finally call my wife.
Faith really should have made a call to a CWO that has looked after him up until now to get the skinny on Chief Dodger before this meeting.
However, behavior like that! I don't know about you blokes but that would get anyone here placed under close arrest 30 seconds ago.
However, behavior like that! I don't know about you blokes but that would get anyone here placed under close arrest 30 seconds ago.
That bit with Dodger should have been in private with a witness.
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Capt Faith's authority was undermined by CWO Dodger in front of the entire Unit. NCO's watching this exchange might look at Capt Faith as a soft touch..
I would look to see who signed off on his Army Career and Alumni Program (ACAP) if any and which program he was engaged in.. If there was no signature I would have the CWO up on orders for AWOL and insubordination..
http://www.armystudyguide.com/conte...my_programs/army-career-and-alumni-pr-2.shtml
I would look to see who signed off on his Army Career and Alumni Program (ACAP) if any and which program he was engaged in.. If there was no signature I would have the CWO up on orders for AWOL and insubordination..
http://www.armystudyguide.com/conte...my_programs/army-career-and-alumni-pr-2.shtml
And knowing Capt Faith as well as I do, it probably would have been. But as soon as the CWO pulled out the punk card, Capt Faith HAD to smack him down. If the CWO was stupid enough to take it down an ugly road, he left the skipper with no choice.
Cpt Faith needs to call the HHC Cdr and let him know the CWO was just fired.
I assume his SCI access gets pulled and annotated into the system.
All the retirement awards head into the trash can, etc.
I assume his SCI access gets pulled and annotated into the system.
All the retirement awards head into the trash can, etc.
I would get witness statements from the personnel in attendance, just in case CPT Faith chooses to take the matter into UCMJ territory.
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