Hello everyone. I've decided that I'm definitely joining the military with the goal of becoming a Special Forces soldier. I'm unsure whether I should join after obtaining a degree or join straight out of HS. Many of my family memebers keep pushing me to join after college (and as an officer) but part of me feels that it would better to join right out of High School. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me.
College before the military?
- Thread starter asewland
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I concur.
But there is nothing stopping you from enlisting after you have earned your degree, if that's still something you want to do 4+ years from now. Generally speaking, with a degree, more options are available to you, both in the military and outside of it.
But there is nothing stopping you from enlisting after you have earned your degree, if that's still something you want to do 4+ years from now. Generally speaking, with a degree, more options are available to you, both in the military and outside of it.
There are pro's and con's to each side. I would research the pro's and con's to each COA thoroughly before you make a decision.
If you want, post what you come up for pro's/con's and we can give you some feedback and help you fine tune it.
If you want, post what you come up for pro's/con's and we can give you some feedback and help you fine tune it.
I decided to enlist out of high school. Now as I wait to leave for basic I go and visit my friends at college so I get to see what it would have been like if I chosen the other road. As much of a big experience it is for people my age to go to college, it's one I know was not meant for me, not now at least. It's really about which one you want more, I felt I couldn't wait any longer but I'm still young and immature so who knows, maybe I'll show up to basic and regret it all. But it's what I decided I needed to do. I suggest going on college visits, as many as possible. Then I suggest going to the recruiters, even though you say SF maybe look into the other branches as well. Look at all options, and then maybe one you hadn't thought of before will stick out and kind of call out to you. This is the process I went through when I was deciding what to do and it really helped me focus.
Generally sometimes a person's mentality changes in the four years they are in college. Unless you are balls deep in a ROTC /Military Science program then the chances of you still having the drive to serve after four years (unless you get on the five year plan) are decreased tremendously. You will be in a different place in your life, you may or may not have found the "love of your life" (trust me, you didn't), or maybe some future well paying career opportunities, etc.
D
Deleted member 2517
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I think Tropicana98 would be well suited to respond to this post.
I've decided to take goon's advice and come up with a quick pros and cons list for both options.
College Pros
-better job opportunities
-more time to mature
-better options if I join afterwards
College Cons
-may lose interest in the military while I'm there
-harder to get in shape for infantry and SOF
-student debt
-job market is reducing the value of a degree
-not sure if I really want to go ATM
Military Pros
-doing what I want to do right out of High School
-better shape (or more likely to be able to meet physical conditions)
-more chances to purse an SOF career
Military Cons
-if I'm injured, less opportunities when I get out (due to not having a college degree)
-may not get the MOS I want
-may find that I actually hate military life
This is a rough list. Feel free to critique.
College Pros
-better job opportunities
-more time to mature
-better options if I join afterwards
College Cons
-may lose interest in the military while I'm there
-harder to get in shape for infantry and SOF
-student debt
-job market is reducing the value of a degree
-not sure if I really want to go ATM
Military Pros
-doing what I want to do right out of High School
-better shape (or more likely to be able to meet physical conditions)
-more chances to purse an SOF career
Military Cons
-if I'm injured, less opportunities when I get out (due to not having a college degree)
-may not get the MOS I want
-may find that I actually hate military life
This is a rough list. Feel free to critique.
Trust me, you can "lose interest in the military" by being in the military just as fast as you could if you went to college first ;)
If you want to do both, which makes more sense to you personally--> do you think it would be easier for you to do college first and then enlist if you want to do that, or to enlist and then try to go to college later?
If you want to do both, which makes more sense to you personally--> do you think it would be easier for you to do college first and then enlist if you want to do that, or to enlist and then try to go to college later?
I believe that joining up first would be the best option for me. My parents refuse to see it, but I believe that the value of the degree is going down. Coupled with student loan debt, I don't feel that going to college right out of High School would be the best plan.
It's good to put pen to paper and get your pro's and con's out in front of you. Unfortunately I don't think anyone here is going to be able to answer your problem for you. This is one of many problems you're going to have to figure out and pick a course of action.
I did college and just got out and now I'm enlisting. I think it was good for me. You learn a lot, get exposed to a whole lot more. Also it's not harder to get into shape. College is like anything else in life- you make decisions. My first couple years of college I got with a group of guys who's priorities were partying and drinking. All the physical fitness I had from HS sports going in to college was gone in a year. All about choices. Junior year I reassessed my priorities and got back into shape. Most colleges have some type of gym facility, or get a job and join a gym. Eat healthy. There's nothing about taking four classes a semester that mandates that you become unfit. Being able to make the right choices with nobody around to tell you what to do or how to do it is a part of growing up, and something, so I'm told, that is highly sought after by various SOF.
Certain degrees are worth less than others. I'd agree with you somewhat on that. That being said, a college degree is still incredibly valuable in today's world.
Ultimately, like I said before, the choice is yours. You have to do what you feel right about. Don't cheat yourself though. It's only going to hurt you in the long run. College was good for me, but just like the military- it isn't for everyone and that's fine. Good luck man.
What do you want to do in the military, be enlisted or be an officer? If it's the latter, you're going to need a degree. You can enlist and work your way up into the Officers' Corps, but you still have to have a 4-year degree before you can pin on O3. Moreover, with the way the cutbacks are going, I wouldn't be surprised if the OCS numbers drop dramatically. Precipitously, even. So if you want to be an officer, ever, the course of action with the highest probability of success is to do it through the ROTC program. Which means you'd have to go to college.
You could also enlist for a short stint with the intent of going to college immediately after. You can even commission this way; I know of several officers who were enlisted, got out entirely, then went to school and were commissioned either through ROTC or West Point. If school funding is a concern, the post-9/11 GI Bill is extremely generous (although I wouldn't be surprised if that got the axe soon, too) and the only way to get that is to enlist first.
You can also join the Guard while you're in college; back when I was in school they called it SMP- Simultaneous Membership Program. So you're a fulltime college student and part-time enlisted member of the Guard. I thought of it as a great way to get some practical enlisted experience before joining the ranks of the Officers' Corps after completing ROTC. I couldn't do the program because of a specific constraint of my scholarship, but I though it was a good idea and would have done it if I could have.
There are also military junior colleges like Georgia Military College (not to be confused with North Georgia College, which is also a military school but is 4-year) where you can get commissioned in two years. You can also do SMP while at these schools (or at least you could back when I was in ROTC).
Finally, whatever you decide to do you should keep your options open. You're a junior, right? What kind of scholarships are you applying for? What schools are you considering? What are you doing to keep your physical fitness level up? Even if you're dead-set on enlisting after graduation, it's not going to cost you much to apply for a bunch of scholarships/programs/schools, IMO you'd make a better decision once all of the viable options are truly on the table.
You could also enlist for a short stint with the intent of going to college immediately after. You can even commission this way; I know of several officers who were enlisted, got out entirely, then went to school and were commissioned either through ROTC or West Point. If school funding is a concern, the post-9/11 GI Bill is extremely generous (although I wouldn't be surprised if that got the axe soon, too) and the only way to get that is to enlist first.
You can also join the Guard while you're in college; back when I was in school they called it SMP- Simultaneous Membership Program. So you're a fulltime college student and part-time enlisted member of the Guard. I thought of it as a great way to get some practical enlisted experience before joining the ranks of the Officers' Corps after completing ROTC. I couldn't do the program because of a specific constraint of my scholarship, but I though it was a good idea and would have done it if I could have.
There are also military junior colleges like Georgia Military College (not to be confused with North Georgia College, which is also a military school but is 4-year) where you can get commissioned in two years. You can also do SMP while at these schools (or at least you could back when I was in ROTC).
Finally, whatever you decide to do you should keep your options open. You're a junior, right? What kind of scholarships are you applying for? What schools are you considering? What are you doing to keep your physical fitness level up? Even if you're dead-set on enlisting after graduation, it's not going to cost you much to apply for a bunch of scholarships/programs/schools, IMO you'd make a better decision once all of the viable options are truly on the table.
A couple of additional points. I, and a lot of my peers that enlisted straight out of HS had the disadvantage of not having any real world comparisons for the differance between the military and civilian life when we got out. Many of us thought that we would be much happier in the civilian world (nobody telling you what to do, making more money, less bueracracy (sp)), and then discovered that people do tell you what to do, you don't really make more money and there is just as much, if not more red tape! Unforunetly the military is not kind prior service who realize how much they miss it and want to get back in. Going to college first MAY give you a tatse of the real world. Just my $.02
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DAVE101
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Disclosure: I'm an army reservist currently seeking a bachelors.
First off, I think the obvious answer is both. One can make you a much better candidate for the other. Some of the brightest soldiers I have worked with are enrolled in classes or have a degree. Similarly, some of my best performing peers at the university are prior service.
Attending college is about much more than a degree. The amount of learning and self development is astronomical, and I'm not necessarily referring in the classroom. The things you learn and the connections you make will be well worth the tuition. Also, going out to party once in a while doesn't mean you have to give up your fitness, nutrition, or training. I've personally never been compelled to drink in my 4 years (at a huge party school mind you), and I'm in the best shape of my life. ROTC is an option you can look into commitment free for two years, which will give you a much better (although not complete) understanding of how the military functions.
"Vlog Brothers" gives some objective measures as well as compelling subjective ones. It also explains why you shouldn't worry about the cost:
I'd definitely take a look into the Guard/Reserve SMP program mentioned previously.
First off, I think the obvious answer is both. One can make you a much better candidate for the other. Some of the brightest soldiers I have worked with are enrolled in classes or have a degree. Similarly, some of my best performing peers at the university are prior service.
Attending college is about much more than a degree. The amount of learning and self development is astronomical, and I'm not necessarily referring in the classroom. The things you learn and the connections you make will be well worth the tuition. Also, going out to party once in a while doesn't mean you have to give up your fitness, nutrition, or training. I've personally never been compelled to drink in my 4 years (at a huge party school mind you), and I'm in the best shape of my life. ROTC is an option you can look into commitment free for two years, which will give you a much better (although not complete) understanding of how the military functions.
"Vlog Brothers" gives some objective measures as well as compelling subjective ones. It also explains why you shouldn't worry about the cost:
I'd definitely take a look into the Guard/Reserve SMP program mentioned previously.
To augment this post:
1) Look into Green to Gold if you decide to enlist first and want to become an officer.
2) Having a 4-year degree is very beneficial even as an enlisted soldier. You'll have promotion points from it and at least know how to write a report. Sounds silly? Depending on what you do, SF or not, that's a valuable skill.
3) Having seen the SMP program in action I think it should be abolished. In a nutshell: you hold down a slot in a Guard unit but can't be deployed. You wear your cadet rank to drill. Everyone keeps you at arm's length (no trust and why should they invest time in someone who isn't staying in the unit?). I've seen rare circumstances where a cadet actually ran a platoon...it was quite the Falcon Punch.
4) Enlisting with a degree means you come in as an E-4 and you're a few years older and in theory more mature than the average 18/ 19 YO in Basic. That will pay dividends.
5) I would strongly argue against enlisting in the Guard while going to college with the intent of "trying before you buy." The Guard frowns upon those that do (they are paying for your training but then you leave to go Active? Not cool) and your professors may not care for you doing Guard stuff instead of school work. I know about that first hand and have the transcript to prove it. OR you can sham out of Guard obligations to focus on school...but then do you expect the unit to let you go Active once your degree is complete? Good luck if that's your COA.
6) Both will always be there.
This. Great points DAVE101
I'm a reservist as well and was fortunate to get a deployment shortly after checking into my reserve unit, even a 60% Post 9-11 GI bill is pretty generous. I think developing that discipline and small unit leadership helped facilitate a better mindset going into the classroom. However, I can see it working vice versa, attaining a 4 year degree first and then enlisting.
At the very least get an associates first, no one should go in debt getting an associates IMHO, and that will give you 2 years to weigh out the pro's/con's.
I don't know how it is in the Guard/Reserve SMP programs you mentioned above, but its damn near possible to go active duty from the USMC reserves enlisted. I can't really say much for the Officer route side of things from reserve to active.
Dude there is really no more I could add to this thread as some of the more senior members have already put out much more info than I could. My personal experience as I graduated college this year and am currently going through all my initial entry training is that I'm glad I went to college before I enlisted(you don't have to commission just because you have a degree). College for me helped reinforce my decision to serve after realizing the civilian job market didn't interest me no matter the monetary gain. You also don't need to worry about getting in worse shape because as stated its all on you, if you want it you'll do it. I played college football and I'm not as skilled pure strength as I was but I'm not a whole lot weaker, I can run farther faster, and I weigh a lot less doing it. As far as a degree's worth, it's ALWAYS good to have that diploma in your back pocket. However, that works in your favor because you don't have to rush to get it. But increasing your formal education is never a negative I don't care whether you want to shoot terrorists in the face or wear a suit. You SF right? Well they are revamping the Q course so graduates get an associates and I'm willing to bet a bachelor when they can find an institution to get on board. I'm assuming you want to serve in the conventional army as you have to be 20 or 19 turning 20 to sign an 18x contract. If you want to go directly SF then you have to wait anyway so why not go to school. There really is no wrong answer do what's best for you. College before enlisting was best for me but there are plenty of phenomenal soldiers who didn't do that they are on this website and I'm around plenty of them everyday.
True words there.
Not much to add to the really good posts already made but here is something to think about. Right now you have pretty much zero responsibilities outside of yourself. You can do anything. You enlist, you start a life. You may find that life may get in the way of what you want to do later. You may meet someone, get married, have kids, decide to get out....are you still going to go to college? You can always enlist after you graduate from college. You may not be able to easily go back to college after you get out of the Army (assuming that you do not make it a career). Graduating from college first gives you more flexibility for your future and keeps the maximum amount of doors open for you.
Thanks for all the advice, guys. While my decision isn't set in stone, I've decided that I'll go to college and get my Bachelor's degree before enlisting. While part of me is itching to enlist straight out of High School, I realize it would better for me in the long run if I have a degree.
