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Covid-19
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
- Start date
Damn the Man
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ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I miss it sometimes...especially seeing those Canadian LAV's at NTC, and the cute green CADPAT they wore in the middle of a desert!
Elon Musk gets a little (righly so) savage with CNN.
Elon Musk, CNN spar over ventilator story; Musk surprised network ‘still exists’
And then CNN, because it is such a reputable organization, decided to double-down on the stupid:
Elon Musk, CNN spar over ventilator story; Musk surprised network ‘still exists’
And then CNN, because it is such a reputable organization, decided to double-down on the stupid:
Blizzard
Member
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- 3,681
Worth a read:
I've been self-isolating in Sweden for 5 weeks—here's what it's like
Population demographics are quite different, etc. but it's still interesting to read their approach.
A quick check as of today, shows Sweden has 13,216 total cases (for whatever that's worth - a pretty useless metric IMO) and 1,400 total deaths. They added 676 new cases today along with 67 deaths. Sweden has a population of ~10M.
I've been self-isolating in Sweden for 5 weeks—here's what it's like
Population demographics are quite different, etc. but it's still interesting to read their approach.
A quick check as of today, shows Sweden has 13,216 total cases (for whatever that's worth - a pretty useless metric IMO) and 1,400 total deaths. They added 676 new cases today along with 67 deaths. Sweden has a population of ~10M.
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ThunderHorse
Verified Military
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2012
- Messages
- 12,839
- Update -
Look who's back....maybe.
Reinstate? Reassign? Navy to decide fate of fired captain
WASHINGTON — The Navy’s top admiral will soon decide the fate of the ship captain who was fired after pleading for commanders to move faster to safeguard his coronavirus-infected crew on the USS Theodore Roosevelt.
In the glare of a public spotlight, Adm. Mike Gilday will decide whether Navy Capt. Brett Crozier stepped out of line when he went around his chain of command and sent an email pushing for action to stem the outbreak. As of Friday, 660 sailors on the aircraft carrier, now docked at Guam, had tested positive for the virus and seven were hospitalized. One sailor has died, and more than 4,000 of the ship's 5,000 crew members have been moved onto the island for quarantine.
Gilday's review won't be limited to Crozier. It will also look at the command climate on the ship and higher up within the Pacific-based fleet, to determine if there are broader leadership problems in a region critical to America's national security interests.
Look who's back....maybe.
Reinstate? Reassign? Navy to decide fate of fired captain
WASHINGTON — The Navy’s top admiral will soon decide the fate of the ship captain who was fired after pleading for commanders to move faster to safeguard his coronavirus-infected crew on the USS Theodore Roosevelt.
In the glare of a public spotlight, Adm. Mike Gilday will decide whether Navy Capt. Brett Crozier stepped out of line when he went around his chain of command and sent an email pushing for action to stem the outbreak. As of Friday, 660 sailors on the aircraft carrier, now docked at Guam, had tested positive for the virus and seven were hospitalized. One sailor has died, and more than 4,000 of the ship's 5,000 crew members have been moved onto the island for quarantine.
Gilday's review won't be limited to Crozier. It will also look at the command climate on the ship and higher up within the Pacific-based fleet, to determine if there are broader leadership problems in a region critical to America's national security interests.
I think the Fat Leonard case and number of crashed ships answers that question...
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Last investigation into the Pac Fleet didn't yield any good results: bad command climates, whole squadrons not meeting training requirements because they were forced to deploy earlier, all sorts of bad whoonya.
Whether he was right or wrong about the danger the coronavirus presented to the ship, he was wrong to go around his chain of command. Every leader in the military has an "open door policy". He could have kept going up the chain.
Had any of his subordinates gone behind his back and sent an email out when they thought HE was wrong, I guarantee you he would have hammered them. And rightfully so; once the mentality exists that the chain is flexible, it never goes away.
Has nobody on this board dealt with a broken chain before?
I've dealt with a situation where the "open door policy" was really just a way for the CO to catch people asking about legitimate things before it got to the BC.
Or one where a brand new private had it so drilled into her head to always follow the chain that she wouldn't go to her 1SG about the SSG sexually harassing her over text, because her SFC told her she couldn't jump him in the chain.
Sometimes the chain needs to be broken; that's for the investigation to decide if this was the case.
I've dealt with a situation where the "open door policy" was really just a way for the CO to catch people asking about legitimate things before it got to the BC.
Or one where a brand new private had it so drilled into her head to always follow the chain that she wouldn't go to her 1SG about the SSG sexually harassing her over text, because her SFC told her she couldn't jump him in the chain.
Sometimes the chain needs to be broken; that's for the investigation to decide if this was the case.
Exactly this. As I stated in an earlier post, the skipper didn’t write that email out of blind desperation. He isn’t dumb, and he knew the risks of open door, aka jumping the chain of command. Because let’s face it, every briefing one gets about “open door policy” is heavily laden with the implication that it’s jumping the chain, and will bring nothing but trouble. I also believe it was someone looking to end Crozer’s career that leaked it to the press, knowing full well that Crozer jumping the chain would be seen as the bigger sin than another officer leaking the memo.
Your post about broken chains of command reminds me of my time in between deployments 3 and 4. A guy was getting fucked over on his special duty pay from the bottom up, and took it to his Congressman. When word got out after PT on Monday that someone had filed a congressional, my chain of command called me in and asked why I thought their shoddy and abusive attitude towards me did merit calling my Congressman, did I not understand the chain of command as an NCO, yadda yadda yadda...
They shit themselves when I laughed in their faces and said that I wasn’t the one who filed.
You're really going to compare a "brand new private" to an Navy Captain aviator ship commander? Seriously? Please admit now that you're making a strawman argument.
Yes, I've also dealt with broken leaders, fake "open door policies", and subpar chains of command. And I knew how to deal with them and continue operations, because I was a Marine SNCO and had been taught how to do so. This guy was a highly paid and trained naval officer. The nation spent a lot of money teach him to lead and fight. When the time came to do the right thing, he failed.
I'm saying that shitty leadership doesn't only rot at the bottom, and that many people treat the chain as @racing_kitty described; a way to get at those who might have a legitimate grip with leadership.
We've got threads on here devoted to how rotten some of the leadership higher up in the Navy has become; I'm waiting for the investigation to finish, because for an 06 to jump the chain like that is either a giant lapse in judgement, or a feeling that the chain is rotten.
We've got threads on here devoted to how rotten some of the leadership higher up in the Navy has become; I'm waiting for the investigation to finish, because for an 06 to jump the chain like that is either a giant lapse in judgement, or a feeling that the chain is rotten.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
How many rungs you gonna skip? The FMR acting SECNAV had direct contact with CPT Crozier.
Infected personnel were being evacuated and additional help was underway. Not sure how much more needed to be done in this situation.
However there were still several options available to him: Congressional Inquiry with either his Representative or Senator.
