FFL 2REP & DINOPS

[pardus]

Gringos always comparing the Special Forces/Tier 1/Elite/Special Operations units, no one ever wins.

What do you mean by that?

 

[Soldado]

What do you mean by that?

The Americans from US, not the continent.

 

[pardus]

The Americans from US, not the continent.

Do not make comments that disparage a country or race again on this site. Thank you.

 

[Soldado]

Do not make comments that disparage a country or race again on this site. Thank you.

You don't understand, you do not speak Spanish or do not have a Latin culture. I promise to review my commentaries and expressions.

I edited the comment.

 

[pardus]

You don't understand, you do not speak Spanish or do not have a Latin culture.

I do understand.

promise to review my commentaries and expressions.

I edited the comment.

Good.

 

[Soldado]

I do understand.

Sure.

Good.

Thank you.

Have a good day!

 

[RackMaster]

Sure.


Thank you.

Have a good day!

It may just be a language/cultural barrier but I highly "suggest" that if a Moderator corrects you or tells you do something; do it and carry on. This is a lot like military life, suck it up and shut your cake hole.

Now do not respond to my post.

 

[Rapid]

They're not considered SOF in the French military, and they get a bit of ribbing from actual French SOF units. They're great at what they do (as elite infantry), but their training and mentality just isn't very compatible with certain special operations duties. They can follow orders and kick some ass, but that's mostly it. 2 REP does have some specialist elements (much like all other conventional French parachute regiments), but even they are not considered to be truly on par with SOF. This isn't a put-down on their capabilities or reputation. They just have a different mission set. SOF units require a level of thinking, autonomy and initiative which isn't really what Légion training is known for distilling. Many of them are hard as nails, but we all know that's not enough to be in most SOF units. That's not to say that all Légionnaires don't have what it takes for SOF duties -- some do --, but on the whole, it's not the kind of environment/atmosphere that breeds a lot of people who could go on to be successful Special Forces soldiers or work in JSOC (easier to understand for most people here than their French equivalents). Not that it matters, as a lot of them are very happy to just be tough, crazy sons a bitches.

 

[le rhodesian]

I served with the CRAP / GCP of 2REP so I figure I am pretty qualified to give some history on the subject.

Pre-1990 the French Army consisted primarily of national servicemen led by a few regulars. This was the case in all regular French Army regiments including the 11 Choc, 1eme RPIMA and 13 RDP. In those days the French Army had very poor SF units with a large number of national servicemen who signed longer term engagements, but who were primarily conscripts. Although the regiments still existed there was poor training and almost all expertise had fallen away after Algeria.

In Gulf War 1 a call was made to France to provide a SF contingent; the French Army Command found themselves in an embarrassing situation having to deploy a CRAP (SF) unit consisting of conscript soldiers into the Gulf. Only 2REP CRAP were professionally trained SF. At that stage 2REP GCP unbeknown to the French Government were training as SF, their commanding NCO was former Rhodesian Intelligence and there were several former SAS, SBS and other NATO and Warsaw Pact specialists serving who could provide high level training. The GIGN also quietly trained with us.

What happened in GW1 was a disaster with regular army CRAP making stupid uneducated errors like picking up a BLU 97 sub-munition to ask what it was before blowing off his own head off and killing and wounding +20 others including several 2REP CRAP.

After GW1 the French Command had two problems with the REP providing it's SF; firstly it was embarrassing; secondly, they were foreigners and did not have the security clearances to be conducting the clandestine SF operations or be privy to sensitive intelligence. Up until Rwanda and Bosnia 2REP's CRAP unit which changed to GCP was very central to the COS; however, the COS was instructed to phase out 2REP from tier 1 as rapidly as possible. So in conclusion it is not because 2REP GCP are not trained or qualified to perform SF operations including Hostage Rescue that they are tier 2 COS; it is because consisting of foreigners they do not have the security clearance.

I agree with the comments that 2REP and the Legion are not SF, also that most legionnaires don't have what it takes intellectually to be SF However, isn't this true for all armies. The legion is a small army consisting of about 8000 engineers, cavalry, infantry and paras. Of the legion there is only one parachute regiment, 2REP consisting of about 1300 paras. Then there is the GCP consisting of 28 legionnaires. Imagine the previous experience the legion has to call on; ex soldiers from the worlds elite regiments, doctors, fighter pilots, lawyers, chartered accountants, computer programmers, micro mechanical and electrical engineers that join the legion for one reason or another and then become available to 2REP GCP. I haven't even touched on the 120 languages, where others send off soldiers to language school, the legion has native speakers. The Legion GCP is very capable, all that limits it is it's security clearance, and this is normal and I agree with the French Government.

The translation is 30 km full kit run in 2 hrs 29 minutes as part of a week of physical entry tests to SF Free Fall school in Pau France. 13 first places and 1 second place on SF courses, and record holder of Mont Louis Commando school "pistes vert et rouge" was a legionnaire of GCP. Not second rate by any account!

 

[TLDR20]

@le rhodesian , you need to post an intro as per the site rules in the introduction forum before posting anywhere else.

 

[le rhodesian]

@le rhodesian , you need to post an intro as per the site rules in the introduction forum before posting anywhere else.

My apology, I have now posted an introduction.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Okay wait a minute.... CRAP is not CRAP, but is actually some group of badass FFL Commandos, who do not take CRAP, from anyone, especially other French CRAP?

 

[le rhodesian]

Commando de Renseignement et d'Action dans la Profondeur "CRAP" Translates to "Intelligence gathering and action behind enemy lines commando". Not the biggest meanest badass legionnaires, those ones do the Combat company para frontal assaults on machine gun positions. CRAP "equipiers" were usually selected for combination of calm temperament to work in small groups of two or three commandos where you may be in a surveillance hide together for prolonged periods of weeks to months; and physical and intellectual ability. Minimum rank caporal, but usually Caporal Chef or Sargent and aged mid 20's to late 30's with several language skills, usually previous military operational experience also.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I was making a joke, as CRAP in English translates to shit. I meant no offense by it, and hope you did not take it as such.

Sounds like the unit you are talking about is the equivalent of our LRS (long range surveillance) units?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Surveillance

 

[le rhodesian]

....and no problem with the name, we all spoke English in the unit, even the non-native english speakers spoke english as we operated quite a bit with foreign armies including the Brits and US. Everyone was decently educated and often had been former officers or academics before joining the legion. As we were a clandestine unit the name helped us sound like we weren't SF which wasn't a bad thing, it was a good laugh for us and the native english speakers were the ones upset when the name changed to GCP because some foolish senior officer suddenly had the name explained to him.

Also no problem with other French units, we all trained and worked extensively together and many of us remained good friends having done our free fall and other courses together and some joint ops. Most French regular GCP are smart enough to understand that because we are foreigners we don't have or expect the security clearance to be tier 1 COS, but I would like to believe that in a hot extraction they'd prefer it was us covering their backs than someone else.

 

[le rhodesian]

JAB, I know you were making a joke, I'm a native english speaker. No offense taken, no stress this end your joke is good but old.

 

[le rhodesian]

I suppose this is for another blog but my question is what makes a SOF operator? I believe SOF isn't about being or doing anything no one else can do. It is about doing a lot of very normal and often small things well that practically all other specialist military units do as well or sometimes better; explosives, bridge building, communications, photography, shooting, free fall, closed circuit diving, ECM etc in one person.