Kraut783
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Mayor Mike Rawlings is a lot like Clay Jenkins of the Dallas County Commissioners Court.......idiots
General Terrorism Discussion
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Mass shootings are actually fairly proportional to the demographics of the country. But yes you're right roughly 64% of all mass shooting have been committed by white males.
I am willing to bet more campus crimes are committed by non-whites than by whiny white dudes.
TLDR20
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I'm willing to say I'm more likely to be killed by someone of any race on an American College campus than by Islamic Terrorists. That is sad. It has to do with race only in so much as yes white men do it most often.
I think it is sad that when terrorists attack suddenly we are appalled by mass violence, even though it happens in the US at an appalling rate.
TLDR20
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Maybe but campus crime do not equal mass shootings....
I think mass shootings are domestic terrorism. They are certainly as traumatic to those affected. Just because they don't have political ideology(or they aren't a different religion) somehow makes them not terrorism? I think that is stupid.
Hmmm, you are talking about a specific location (college campus) that has a majority of white people. You're also stating that mass shooting amount for an appalling rate of violence in this country. You are twisting the situation to fit your personal view.
That said, even using data to justify your comments that you "fear the whiny armed white man" you are not addressing the demographics of violent crimes committed on college campuses by proportions of whites vs black, Asian, etc.
The other issue, is not taking into account the projection of what will or can happen. You may not fear Islamic extremists at school, but you may want to review that position in the future when attending large public venues. It might not be coming to a town near you, hell I hope it doesn't come at all, but to dismiss and ignore the current probability, would be IMO foolish and dangerous.
That said, I do understand your POV and would agree that if I was in college, crazy whiny white dude would be on my "avoid and be situational aware" list.
I feel zero threat from campus shooters.
For one thing, they are incredibly rare. Around 6 - 7 mass shootings (counting any incident with 3 or more fatalities) since 2010.
For another, they are not coordinating with each other to work in groups or cells (although there might be one or two exceptions in the past 20 years).
I'm concerned not because right now I believe there's a threat from Jihadis. I'm concerned because right now I believe the IS will succeed in establishing a caliphate and will then gradually export fighters- many per month - into the United States. At present, IS fighters in Syria and the greater region probably number more than 300,000. Fighters are arriving there daily. They're serious. I think the United States and most of Europe has been almost completely asleep at the wheel as this organization explodes in numbers.
For one thing, they are incredibly rare. Around 6 - 7 mass shootings (counting any incident with 3 or more fatalities) since 2010.
For another, they are not coordinating with each other to work in groups or cells (although there might be one or two exceptions in the past 20 years).
I'm concerned not because right now I believe there's a threat from Jihadis. I'm concerned because right now I believe the IS will succeed in establishing a caliphate and will then gradually export fighters- many per month - into the United States. At present, IS fighters in Syria and the greater region probably number more than 300,000. Fighters are arriving there daily. They're serious. I think the United States and most of Europe has been almost completely asleep at the wheel as this organization explodes in numbers.
TLDR20
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Schools are just an example dude. Race has almost nothing to do with it. The fact is that in any large public area I am more likely to be killed by a lone gunman acting out his own kill Boner. I used college(but could substitute movie theaters post offices, the street in Santa Barbara) as an example because I am on campus... For fucks sake two pages ago you posted a picture video highlighting all the mass shootings! This conversation isn't about violent crime, we had that conversation a while back while you were ...on a break.
My apologies, I didn't know it had been discussed in depth, and I was only attempting to engage you in the conversation regarding "not fearing Islamic extremists".
@TLDR20 and @Freefalling : FWIW, I think your comments and observations above are not only relevant and worthy of mentioning, but also cast on interesting light on the topic.
You're citing a directly comparable threat (domestic terrorism vs. foreign-sponsored terrorism) and the (similar) dangers they pose to the civilian population in a modern city within the developed world (any European or North American city). If it's not discussed here in this thread, it would be great in its own thread.
You're citing a directly comparable threat (domestic terrorism vs. foreign-sponsored terrorism) and the (similar) dangers they pose to the civilian population in a modern city within the developed world (any European or North American city). If it's not discussed here in this thread, it would be great in its own thread.
TLDR20
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Ok. I think that we pigeonhole terrorism into a neatly defined little sector of our society, but I think that any mass shooting is terrorism, regardless of the motivations of the shooter. Workplace violence??? Nope, that shit is terrorism, school shootings..? Terrorism. The point may not be an underlying political ideology, but their point is to terrorize nonetheless. I have been nervous in theaters since the shit with Batman in Colorado. I think it is easier for someone to conduct a mass shooting by themselves than it is for a terrorist cell to operate or successfully attack here in the US. I think that has proven true time and again. Look at @Diamondback 2/2 's post with the mass shootings, and tell me straightfaced that those shootings are not a greater threat to me than the terrorist activities taking place in the US over the comparable amount of time.
I did bring up race only to point out that crazy isn't just a middle eastern problem. Terrorists (used as I see them, anyone conducting mass violence) come in all races, shapes and ideologies, but here in America you are more likely to be shot by a white guy if you are white(I am) a black guy if you are black, so on.... My chance of being a white guy killed by a middle eastern terrorist is almost zero. I don't change my pattern of life to avoid it. I do think about getting killed in a movie theater and I get phone alerts any time there is even a possibility of a shooter near campus so that fills my life with warnings.
Lone wolf style attacks are the easiest way to strike fear into a populace. I cannot believe there haven't been shootings at major shopping malls yet. It is so easy to get a gun in America, which while awesome for me, also gives me pause, because that scorned kid, or that radicalized young man, needs only an ID and can walk out of a store with an AR and a plan the same day....
I'm going to avoid the gun control debate portion.
There have been shopping center mass shooting's, there have been groups of Islamic extremists who have attempted mass shootings, one recently here in Texas that was stopped cold.
Mass shooting are as much a domestic people issue as Islamic extremists issue. I don't think we will ever do away with mass shooting, partially due to the population size, partially due to mental health issues, partially due to twisted thinking that is ever present in the newer generations, etc. However, I think its unwise to completely dismiss the Islamic extremists threat, simply because its hasn't happened on a regular bases, here in the states. Based on what is going on with IS controlled area refugee's, based on the reports that one was in on the Paris attack, based on the current administration pushing to allow these refugees in without guaranteed vetting (if that's even possible) and with IS stating they want to exploit this to attack Americans, and the calling for American Muslims to attack here at home with mass shooting style events. I think it is a very credible threat, I think it is likely to happen often and soon. I also think people should be aware of these things and prepare themselves for it, sharpen up on their situational awareness and have a plan. I'm not calling for mass hysteria, but if my opinion is right, we're going to need to deal with it, before it become common practice. I think that's the debate we should be having. Not to say the domestic nut job is not as equally or even more a current problem. I'm willing to debate the domestic nut job, but it seems to me when ever I do try it devolves into the gun control debate, and I've kicked that dead horse enough.
There have been shopping center mass shooting's, there have been groups of Islamic extremists who have attempted mass shootings, one recently here in Texas that was stopped cold.
Mass shooting are as much a domestic people issue as Islamic extremists issue. I don't think we will ever do away with mass shooting, partially due to the population size, partially due to mental health issues, partially due to twisted thinking that is ever present in the newer generations, etc. However, I think its unwise to completely dismiss the Islamic extremists threat, simply because its hasn't happened on a regular bases, here in the states. Based on what is going on with IS controlled area refugee's, based on the reports that one was in on the Paris attack, based on the current administration pushing to allow these refugees in without guaranteed vetting (if that's even possible) and with IS stating they want to exploit this to attack Americans, and the calling for American Muslims to attack here at home with mass shooting style events. I think it is a very credible threat, I think it is likely to happen often and soon. I also think people should be aware of these things and prepare themselves for it, sharpen up on their situational awareness and have a plan. I'm not calling for mass hysteria, but if my opinion is right, we're going to need to deal with it, before it become common practice. I think that's the debate we should be having. Not to say the domestic nut job is not as equally or even more a current problem. I'm willing to debate the domestic nut job, but it seems to me when ever I do try it devolves into the gun control debate, and I've kicked that dead horse enough.
Personally I'm not worried about either but what does scare me is how we'll attempt to prevent such attacks. Gun control, increased electronic surveillance, the continued militarization of a poor to moderately-trained local police force, and a general decrease in civil liberties are all much, much more worrisome to me than a gunman.
We can argue about attacks, but the above will be a much greater problem IMO.
We can argue about attacks, but the above will be a much greater problem IMO.
I agree with the last portion of not wanting screw with civil liberties. Well to an extent, as I've stated I'm no okay with those liberties being extended to Syrian refugees at this current moment.
However, I'm curious as to why you state you are not concerned with an active shooter event happening in a town near you?
Brill
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Can it happen? Sure. I don't worry about it because they are rare in the grand scheme of things and I'm not going to live my life worrying about the boogieman around the corner. There's being aware of my surroundings and this sort of hypervigilence being pushed upon us. In some cases I think our desire for security is feeding into our paranoia. I will not live my life in fear or a constant state of worry or on the edge of my seat.
@TLDR20
Some of what you say is not a reflection of the actual threats you face.
For instance, you've posted a number of times- in this thread and others- of how your real concern is "a white guy with a gun", something to that effect. Yet, as a white man, you are statistically far more likely to be attacked by a black male.
Also, along the same line of thought, there are some dangers that deserve our attention well in advance of their maturation, not just "how often" such matters have been a threat in the past. Take nuclear weapons as an example: they've only ever been used a tiny handful of times, yet I think we'd agree that if there were a credible chance of them falling into the wrong hands, the threat would have to be confronted no matter the cost. NOBODY would say "nuke attacks are so rare that we don't need to respond". It's not just the probability of attack at present. It's the changing probability as capability increases. As capability increases the threat increases. The dangers of such a threat coming to fruition are so great that we'd go to any length to stop it. Similarly, Islamic terrorism is largely still in the "gathering" phase of a threat. Comparing this to white lone gunmen, in my view, is not taking into account what the potential destruction can become.
This is why I say that ISIS poses such a grave threat to the west in the long term if not confronted and annihilated now.
Some of what you say is not a reflection of the actual threats you face.
For instance, you've posted a number of times- in this thread and others- of how your real concern is "a white guy with a gun", something to that effect. Yet, as a white man, you are statistically far more likely to be attacked by a black male.
Also, along the same line of thought, there are some dangers that deserve our attention well in advance of their maturation, not just "how often" such matters have been a threat in the past. Take nuclear weapons as an example: they've only ever been used a tiny handful of times, yet I think we'd agree that if there were a credible chance of them falling into the wrong hands, the threat would have to be confronted no matter the cost. NOBODY would say "nuke attacks are so rare that we don't need to respond". It's not just the probability of attack at present. It's the changing probability as capability increases. As capability increases the threat increases. The dangers of such a threat coming to fruition are so great that we'd go to any length to stop it. Similarly, Islamic terrorism is largely still in the "gathering" phase of a threat. Comparing this to white lone gunmen, in my view, is not taking into account what the potential destruction can become.
This is why I say that ISIS poses such a grave threat to the west in the long term if not confronted and annihilated now.
TLDR20
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But, 82% of crime against whites is committed by other whites. It says so in the data you posted. So my chances of being attacked by a white person are greater. A black person is more likely to attack a white person, than a white person is to attack a black sure... But there aren't that many blacks comparatively to whites therefore my statement stands up.
I agree international terrorism is a threat.I would like to think we could consider all violence a problem rather than just caring when it is committed by Muslims. That was my point with all of this.
I think we should go kill this at the source. We should be engaged with ISIS in a way that leads to those fuckers dead or dying. Bombing direct action, the gambit..
But I also think pretending every Muslim is a terrorist, or every immigrant is a terrorist is fucking laughable. I think that it is embarrassing the levels of stupidity that our politicians are throwing around relating to it. I think that people who generalize so greatly are idiots(;)). However I don't have answers. I don't claim to, I don't k is how to properly vet the people we want vs the people who are bad. I bet there are smart people working the issue though.
I agree international terrorism is a threat.I would like to think we could consider all violence a problem rather than just caring when it is committed by Muslims. That was my point with all of this.
I think we should go kill this at the source. We should be engaged with ISIS in a way that leads to those fuckers dead or dying. Bombing direct action, the gambit..
But I also think pretending every Muslim is a terrorist, or every immigrant is a terrorist is fucking laughable. I think that it is embarrassing the levels of stupidity that our politicians are throwing around relating to it. I think that people who generalize so greatly are idiots(;)). However I don't have answers. I don't claim to, I don't k is how to properly vet the people we want vs the people who are bad. I bet there are smart people working the issue though.
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