Hard Times

mike_cos

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Tomorrow, the Minister of Defense, Leon Panetta, after an eight-month strategic review, will announce the program of the Pentagon budget cuts.
According to press reports the cuts will lead to a further easing of the U.S. presence in Europe ("The review is expected to the proposed removal of another brigade of Army combat troops from Europe, still leaving two brigades on the continent, one administration official said. A brigade Consists of some 3.000 to 4.000 troops DEPENDING ON ITS configuration ") and renunciation of the so-called "two-warposture" or the ability to fight and win two wars simultaneously.
Needless to say, decisions that have global relevance of this kind by the U.S. government.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/03/u...-of-reduced-military.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/04/us-usa-defense-strategy-idUSTRE8021P620120104
 

Marauder06

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Yep; it's going to start getting tough again. Budget shrinkages almost always include massive personnel cuts, so watch for a big drawdown coming.
 

AWP

Formerly Known as Freefalling
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Iraq and Afghanistan proved we couldn't fight two wars simultaneously and those were in the same theater. Imagine if we had to fight them on opposite ends of the globe.
 

Ranger Psych

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You have to caveat that though, Free. The US didn't spin up the war machine anywhere near what it truly could if the legislators got spooled up and stayed spooled up enough to implement all the measures available and that have been used in the past.
 

Manolito

Lewis B. Puller for todays problems!
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Yep; it's going to start getting tough again. Budget shrinkages almost always include massive personnel cuts, so watch for a big drawdown coming.
Mara will they do like the 70's and end their enlistment early? or will they keep them for the duration with no re-enlistment? A friends Grandson was just let go in the middle of a Navy enlistment along with 2500 other sailors.
Bill
 

Marauder06

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Bill, the Navy and Air Force will probably just can a bunch of folks outright, the Army will slow down promotions, make enlisting and re-enlisting harder, and will move towards a "zero defects" mentality, meaning one screwup and you're gone.
 

AWP

Formerly Known as Freefalling
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You have to caveat that though, Free. The US didn't spin up the war machine anywhere near what it truly could if the legislators got spooled up and stayed spooled up enough to implement all the measures available and that have been used in the past.

I totally agree, however we didn't do that. Even in the darkest days of both wars (2007-2009) when it was obvious that more troops were needed...more of everything was needed, we didn't do that. We didn't tell anyone we were "in it to win it," we stayed with 12-15 month deployments or 6 month for the AF and whatever the Navy and Marines do. The only way we could fight two wars would be to mibilize the whole of our military and we lacked the will to do so and as you know, capability without will means the capability is useless. Our leadership, suit and uniform, failed us.
 

Diamondback 2/2

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If we go to war with Iran while cutting the budget 25+% I will go the fuck off, some people in leadership positions just need to be kicked in the ass every once in a while. Putting our soldiers on the ground with less equipment and funding after 10 years of super gear and subways, is asking for major epic fail. We need to recondition the force before we jump into another war... $0.02
 

DA SWO

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I totally agree, however we didn't do that. Even in the darkest days of both wars (2007-2009) when it was obvious that more troops were needed...more of everything was needed, we didn't do that. We didn't tell anyone we were "in it to win it," we stayed with 12-15 month deployments or 6 month for the AF and whatever the Navy and Marines do. The only way we could fight two wars would be to mibilize the whole of our military and we lacked the will to do so and as you know, capability without will means the capability is useless. Our leadership, suit and uniform, failed us.
Because two SecDef's refused to ask for additional bodies. History will record SecDef Rumsfield as a mediocre, or barely good SecDef. Gates was better, barely.
 

QC

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It will affect our mil a little with new jets on hold, but IMO the US will focus more on Asia.
 

Poccington

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Now just watch as European leaders get into a big flap at the thought of the US deciding not to take as big a role in the defence of Europe. God forbid, European leaders will now have to take Defence seriously rather than relying on the big brother that is the US. Seems like karma coming around to bite them on the ass, after the lack of stomach for a fight when it came to choosing whether to make a serious attempt at supporting the US militarily in A'Stan.

As for cuts, well the fiscal reality is that they have to come. However, they need to be very careful where those cuts are made or it'll have serious reprecussions for the military.
 

DA SWO

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Now just watch as European leaders get into a big flap at the thought of the US deciding not to take as big a role in the defence of Europe. God forbid, European leaders will now have to take Defence seriously rather than relying on the big brother that is the US. Seems like karma coming around to bite them on the ass, after the lack of stomach for a fight when it came to choosing whether to make a serious attempt at supporting the US militarily in A'Stan.

As for cuts, well the fiscal reality is that they have to come. However, they need to be very careful where those cuts are made or it'll have serious reprecussions for the military.
Ironically, for years some of our leaders told us we spent too much (for their internal consumption) and we should cut defense and increase social spending. We did, and look what happens.

Korea will be our biggest issue. China could whack Taiwan while we are tied up in Korea and Afghanistan; the public wouldn't give a rat's ass (and the RP camp would tell us that not intervening was good.
 
B

Boon

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Funny that Panetta said that they plan on retaining their investment in SOF. However, if the focus is due to a shift to Asia, a strong conventional military is pretty necessary (if a war ever broke out with China/Korea).
 

Red Flag 1

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Yep; it's going to start getting tough again. Budget shrinkages almost always include massive personnel cuts, so watch for a big drawdown coming.

The USAF looks to be well into the throws of downsizing. 0-3's , 0-4's, and even 0-5's are getting the boot after two pass over's for promotion. The 0-4's in particular have been slammed pretty hard lately. Making 0-4, and all the right boxes checked is no insurance policy to retire with twenty. For now, if you are an 0-4 with 18 or more years, your retirement is safe. The 0-5's with two passover's have all been able to retire with twenty or more years.

I remember this same thing going on after Viet Nam. There were riff boards for 0-3's, and competition for 0-4 slots was pretty stiff. I recall an 0-3 Phantom driver who was a POW getting passed over for 0-4; that just blew me away. The other trick played was, "controlled" ORE's. The number of "exceptional" officers was stiffly controlled at around 10-15%. No matter how strong the OER was, the instillation commander could only endorse that 10-15%; that was it. There were quite a few officers in Headquarters positions that got endorsements over those at the operational end of things, the Generals saw them more and knew them better. This happened @ Andrews AFB to the squadron that flew AF One, and all it's little children. The 0-3's were not getting the needed endorsements; including the Operations officer, the pilot for AF Two, and a couple others. They all resigned and went to commercial airlines. There are a whole lotta ways to hurt folks that have stood in harms way for this nation.

I pray this all comes out well; we are still fighting a war. Obama removing troops from Iraq is whistling in the graveyard and counting votes, that's all. We are shaving funds from the wrong programs. If Obama can raise one billion dollars for his re-election "war chest", why not earn an equal amount for the defense of our nation; a real war chest? :mad::mad:.

Probably best I stop for now, my teeth are starting to itch, and my hair hurts.

RF 1
 

mike_cos

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Now just watch as European leaders get into a big flap at the thought of the US deciding not to take as big a role in the defence of Europe. God forbid, European leaders will now have to take Defence seriously rather than relying on the big brother that is the US. Seems like karma coming around to bite them on the ass, after the lack of stomach for a fight when it came to choosing whether to make a serious attempt at supporting the US militarily in A'Stan.

As for cuts, well the fiscal reality is that they have to come. However, they need to be very careful where those cuts are made or it'll have serious reprecussions for the military.
Europe does not need to be defended by you ... rather it was you who ask to Europe for help for Iraq and A'stan after 9 / 11....
 

CDG

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Europe does not need to be defended by you ... rather it was you who ask to Europe for help for Iraq and A'stan after 9 / 11....

Is that so? We asked for help because our leaders didn't have the balls to tell the world community to go fuck themselves while we laid waste to Iraq and Afghanistan. Europe would not fare well on its own. I seem to remember two instances in the 20th century where Europe was thanking their lucky stars we decided to send our troops their way.
 

mike_cos

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Is that so? We asked for help because our leaders didn't have the balls to tell the world community to go fuck themselves while we laid waste to Iraq and Afghanistan. Europe would not fare well on its own. I seem to remember two instances in the 20th century where Europe was thanking their lucky stars we decided to send our troops their way.

2000 years ago Rome was Great.... And US didnt exist.... Hey CDG... We are in 21th century... wake up
 
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