Cback if your talking about the US Liberty, I understood that was a mistaken target during the 6 day war? Are you comparing that to how Iran has directly attacked our troops in Iraq?
Israel refuses to tell US its Iran intentions
- Thread starter DA SWO
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Are you using the USS Liberty as your incident of note, or do you have others to bring to the table? I'm just looking for some education Cback.
TLDR20
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Cback if your talking about the US Liberty, I understood that was a mistaken target during the 6 day war? Are you comparing that to how Iran has directly attacked our troops in Iraq?
Yes because they attacked a flag carrying US vessel. Pretty goddamned direct. The Israelis are responsible for many US servicemembers killed due to their policies. It is easy to see. They may be indirect, yes, but responsible nonetheless.
Agree, but Iran has more US blood on their hands.
We haven't always honored agreements with other nations (Grenada).
Cback, without getting into theory arguments regarding Israeli policy, I will state that I find hard to believe that Israel would directly (knowing it was a US Ship) attack the USS Liberty when we were the biggest friend/supporter of Israel during that time. The 6 day war was fought with a whole bunch of US equipment and even though the “mistaken identity” argument might not seem right, they sent Israeli ships to help directly after identifying that it was a US Ship. Who attacks a ship and then sends help? Anyway, I do not see this terrible incident as the same as what Iran has done in Iraq. Not even fucking close.
Iran fucking sent/backed Muqtadā al-Ṣadr, they funded not only the civil war but also put Iraqi’s on the attack who were only weeks prior kissing us and passing out flowers. Iranians were boots on the ground, running destabilization, and using terror attacks to fuel the fire (I know, my unit was killing those motherfuckers every day). The amount of soldiers killed and wounded by the EFP’s that Iran put on the battle field alone, is reason enough for me to want to nuke that whole fucking country into the afterlife. Some pictures of Iranian supplied attacks...
Iran fucking sent/backed Muqtadā al-Ṣadr, they funded not only the civil war but also put Iraqi’s on the attack who were only weeks prior kissing us and passing out flowers. Iranians were boots on the ground, running destabilization, and using terror attacks to fuel the fire (I know, my unit was killing those motherfuckers every day). The amount of soldiers killed and wounded by the EFP’s that Iran put on the battle field alone, is reason enough for me to want to nuke that whole fucking country into the afterlife. Some pictures of Iranian supplied attacks...
There were Israeli comms interecepted, IIRC, that showed them organising the attack and they knew it was a US ship. There's a big difference between a "friend" attacking you and a nation that is openly hostile towards you attacking you. The former is 1000x times worse than the latter IMO.
One of the biggest strengths of Israel and its weakest (IMHO) is that they will ALWAYS put themselves above the best interest of anyone else. Now this isn't always a bad thing, but we need to remember that we are Israels Allie, but that doesn't make her ours. It is better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. I can easily see the Israels targeting our ship in support of their attack if they felt it was for the greater good of their country.
(FIY I am pro-Isrieli (Spent over a month there when I was 15. Had a BLAST) but I am also pro NY Jets, and that doesn't stop me from realizing when the Jets suck)
I have not read a lot on the USS Liberty incident, but if you have a link I would like to read the report on the intercepted communications report.
I am not blindly saying we should follow Israel into war because we are simply allie's or b/c anything else. I am saying Israel faces more of a threat than anyone else, they stand more to lose and they have very little option in defense of their country. They have a common enemy "Iran" and we as the United States should not be giving Israel shit for wanting to protect themselves from the biggest threat the world faces today. I don't blame them for saying "hell no we are telling you if we will strike Iran" why would they, Obama would probably tell them no, and hold a press confrence stating that he told Israel no, prior to them getting the mission off the ground. Hell he just did it to a 100 SOF guys heading into Africa...
It's better for everyone that Iran does not get a nuclear weapon...
Sounds like PERFECT advice for Israel.
In all seriousness though, it's a two way street. Obama has not snubbed Netanyahu any more than Netanyahu has snubbed Obama. Netanyahu, among others, is not making this peace process any easier (totally excluding the question as to why we're arbitrating this dispute anyways).
If anything, this news article is somewhat typical of US-Israeli relations.
And the Jets do suck. lol
Liberty incident Wiki page.
Iran is a much bigger threat to US security than just about anything Israel can do right now. If (I should probably just say "when") Iran gets a nuclear bomb, there is a very real possibility that it will spark a regional nuclear arms race, with Saudi Arabia most likely leading the way and several other middle eastern countries following suit. Countries like Syria, in particular, will probably be looking at nukes as a strategic hedge against outside-influenced regime change. In addition to the conspicuous problems of all of these countries having nukes, I think it would be only a matter of time before they are used against Israel and, after Israel is gone, against the US and/or Europe.
Overall, I consider Israel a good ally and good proxy for US policy. We might bitch and moan if the Israelis take out Iranian nukes (they already did it to Iraq and Syria), but I bet there's a party in the White House when it happens.
Iran is a much bigger threat to US security than just about anything Israel can do right now. If (I should probably just say "when") Iran gets a nuclear bomb, there is a very real possibility that it will spark a regional nuclear arms race, with Saudi Arabia most likely leading the way and several other middle eastern countries following suit. Countries like Syria, in particular, will probably be looking at nukes as a strategic hedge against outside-influenced regime change. In addition to the conspicuous problems of all of these countries having nukes, I think it would be only a matter of time before they are used against Israel and, after Israel is gone, against the US and/or Europe.
Overall, I consider Israel a good ally and good proxy for US policy. We might bitch and moan if the Israelis take out Iranian nukes (they already did it to Iraq and Syria), but I bet there's a party in the White House when it happens.
HOLLiS
Verified Military
Every country put themselves before any other country. Also no country completely trusts another. Ask the French about the attack on Mers-el-Kébir.
So we are doing the USS Liberty debacle. Ever read what Judge Cistol report? BTW this is a very very politically charged event for a number of reasons. There are also articles on Judge Cristol report that contradicts what his conclusions are. There are some very strong political motivations to keep this issue extremely hot.
http://www.mefacts.com/cached.asp?x_id=10058
Part of the problem the US chose to keep a number of facts secret and that lead people to go different directions interpreting what happened. Part of the facts withheld was the recording from the pilot who attacked the USS Liberty.
F/F or blue on blue happens. I know of three time that happened in my Regiment in RVN over a 3 month period. The funny one, only one injury, is when our front element opened fire on our rear element on a company move on a horseshoe shaped ridge. BTW friendly fire is never friendly and you will swear they are trying to hit you.
Other two times, Long round USA Arty kills one Marine in my Company, I 3/3, in June. 5 short rounds kills 3 Marines and 2 Docs in I 3/3, in August.
So believe what you want.
BTW spitfire according to the Pilot's recording, He did not know it was a US ship. This was before, during the attack. IIRC, this was released about 5 years ago.
Another funny part, compare the heat on the attack on the USS Liberty 1967 and the attack on the Marine Barracks in Beirut 1983.
So we are doing the USS Liberty debacle. Ever read what Judge Cistol report? BTW this is a very very politically charged event for a number of reasons. There are also articles on Judge Cristol report that contradicts what his conclusions are. There are some very strong political motivations to keep this issue extremely hot.
http://www.mefacts.com/cached.asp?x_id=10058
Part of the problem the US chose to keep a number of facts secret and that lead people to go different directions interpreting what happened. Part of the facts withheld was the recording from the pilot who attacked the USS Liberty.
F/F or blue on blue happens. I know of three time that happened in my Regiment in RVN over a 3 month period. The funny one, only one injury, is when our front element opened fire on our rear element on a company move on a horseshoe shaped ridge. BTW friendly fire is never friendly and you will swear they are trying to hit you.
Other two times, Long round USA Arty kills one Marine in my Company, I 3/3, in June. 5 short rounds kills 3 Marines and 2 Docs in I 3/3, in August.
So believe what you want.
BTW spitfire according to the Pilot's recording, He did not know it was a US ship. This was before, during the attack. IIRC, this was released about 5 years ago.
Another funny part, compare the heat on the attack on the USS Liberty 1967 and the attack on the Marine Barracks in Beirut 1983.
Scotth
Verified Military
Israel needs the US a lot more then we need them. Servimus is right that Israel has done plenty of insulting of the US, that country that protects them at the UN and gives them billions in military and foreign aid each year. Israel is pretty isolated in the world and doesn't have a whole lot of friends beyond our country.
I really don't know what to make of their saber rattling. If your seriously going to launch an attack against a foreign government why the hell are you publicly talking about it? I think QC was right that this whole thing is more for internal consumption then external.
Even if they are serious it would probably take many raids to completely take out Iran's nuclear capability. Can Israel really mount that kind of extended bombing campaign especially if we aren't in Iraq to refuel their planes?
Iran believes it's in their personal best interest to have nuclear weapons to deter possible invasion. The only way to really prevent Iran from going nuclear is a long term bombing campaign or invasion and that is no more an option under Obama then it was under Bush. At the end of the day we will do the same thing we have always done. We will talk about how unacceptable it is for Iran to get nuclear weapons. There isn't much that will be done overtly and when they become nuclear we will move on to a different target. We will depend on the same strategy that we have always depended on to protect us and that is the threat of nuclear retaliation and we will live with a nuclear Iran just like we are now living with a nuclear North Korea.
I really don't know what to make of their saber rattling. If your seriously going to launch an attack against a foreign government why the hell are you publicly talking about it? I think QC was right that this whole thing is more for internal consumption then external.
Even if they are serious it would probably take many raids to completely take out Iran's nuclear capability. Can Israel really mount that kind of extended bombing campaign especially if we aren't in Iraq to refuel their planes?
Iran believes it's in their personal best interest to have nuclear weapons to deter possible invasion. The only way to really prevent Iran from going nuclear is a long term bombing campaign or invasion and that is no more an option under Obama then it was under Bush. At the end of the day we will do the same thing we have always done. We will talk about how unacceptable it is for Iran to get nuclear weapons. There isn't much that will be done overtly and when they become nuclear we will move on to a different target. We will depend on the same strategy that we have always depended on to protect us and that is the threat of nuclear retaliation and we will live with a nuclear Iran just like we are now living with a nuclear North Korea.
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