Kidnapped Nigerian Girls

Should the US intervene to assist in the recovery of the kidnapped Nigerian schoolgirls?

  • yes

    Votes: 24 50.0%
  • no

    Votes: 24 50.0%

  • Total voters
    48
  • Poll closed .
I think we should do something- as in send in US military forces to rescue the girls.

We should simply because we can.
There are only a few hundred folks qualified to do such a thing...

Is the juice worth the squeeze? Honestly, is any Nigerian girl worth the life of a high level member of the SOF community? It's a very harsh question to ponder- but is a national asset with over 10 years of experience, a myriad of training, and of two or three kids worth sacrificing? Any asshole with an AK can get lucky.

If you answered yes, now make it two- if they got lucky once, maybe they get lucky twice.

Now look at the millions of dollars it took mobilizing such a force and resources spent finding the girls.

I'm not saying it is or it isn't, there are just a lot of things to consider.
 
We have the power to do something right therefore we should. Also, the total lack of humanitarian concern displayed by other nations has never been the measure by which Americans engage the world. We traditionally were the nation that did things because they were right, not because they were popular. We have a lot of black marks in our history, why not put a check mark in the "right thing to do" column for a change?

I get what you are saying, and it may sound harsh, but why do something now, and why do these girls warrant action? This happens all over the world on a daily basis. Maybe not 200 or so at a time, but many and daily. Kids and women are taken and used up and disposed of like garbage. The world needs to come together to get this done because the problem is too big and too widespread for any one country to deal with it.

Also, as the saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished. Even when we think we are doing the "right" thing, there will be many saying we are pushing a hidden agenda and have ulterior motives. Sometimes when bad things happen is someone else's back yard, we shouldn't get involved. This particular incident isn't our problem, as horrible as the situation is for those parents. JMOO.
 
If we have actionable intelligence to rescue the girls we should because it is the right thing to do. Sometimes the right thing to do is reason enough for some behavior. I'm a strong believer in the belief that military intervention should have a strong national interest component but we are not talking about an act of war and I believe the actions of Boko meet the definition of what should be considered an exception to the rule.

Does that mean we put a brigade on the ground running around the country. Of course not.

Does a response have to involve boots on the ground. For a rescue attempt sure it does. It could also involve cruise missiles or other solutions to take out bad guys.

Can we turn are backs to people that think taking two hundred girls are OK? Sure we can today and what happens tomorrow with the 'do nothing today' message that we would send? Where do you draw the line on unacceptable behavior tomorrow?
 
I'll second that and again pose the question, what realistically do BH represent as a threat to the US, UK or anywhere else apart from their own turf?

What threat did Afghan Freedom Fighters pose to the US in the '80's and what threat did they pose to us on 9/11? The future is always hard to predict.

If they were fighting the Nigerian government I would whole heartily agree with you. Stealing children and selling them into sexual slavery is a whole different conversation.
 
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If we have actionable intelligence to rescue the girls we should because it is the right thing to do. Sometimes the right thing to do is reason enough for some behavior. I'm a strong believer in the belief that military intervention should have a strong national interest component but we are not talking about an act of war and I believe the actions of Boko meet the definition of what should be considered an exception to the rule.

Does that mean we put a brigade on the ground running around the country. Of course not.

Does a response have to involve boots on the ground. For a rescue attempt sure it does. It could also involve cruise missiles or other solutions to take out bad guys.

Can we turn are backs to people that think taking two hundred girls are OK? Sure we can today and what happens tomorrow with the 'do nothing today' message that we would send? Where do you draw the line on unacceptable behavior tomorrow?

- If we did something every time we had actionable intelligence, we'd never get a rest.

- A cruise missile costs MILLIONS. First to get the ship, sub, plane, whatever close enough- then to actual use the missile.

- Both of these things would require either permission from Nigeria, or violation of their sovereignty. There are hundreds of countries with problems that don't want any help, there are countries with problems that dictate how we help, and there's the rare country that doesn't care so long as we help- the last example is VERY rare.

Sadly- kidnapping, slavery, mass murder, etc. is nothing new in Africa. This one spread like wildfire through social media and diverted everyone's attention from Miley Cyrus's new haircut- and now all the "important people" are outraged.


Wait till they find out people are eating albinos in Congo to steal their "magical powers."
 
- If we did something every time we had actionable intelligence, we'd never get a rest.

- A cruise missile costs MILLIONS. First to get the ship, sub, plane, whatever close enough- then to actual use the missile.

- Both of these things would require either permission from Nigeria, or violation of their sovereignty. There are hundreds of countries with problems that don't want any help, there are countries with problems that dictate how we help, and there's the rare country that doesn't care so long as we help- the last example is VERY rare.

Sadly- kidnapping, slavery, mass murder, etc. is nothing new in Africa. This one spread like wildfire through social media and diverted everyone's attention from Miley Cyrus's new haircut- and now all the "important people" are outraged.


Wait till they find out people are eating albinos in Congo to steal their "magical powers."

200 girls getting mass kidnapped happens everyday. Shocking that this got to be a story.

PS I didn't say the nation should respond to every incident in the world where we had actionable intelligence.
 
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- If we did something every time we had actionable intelligence, we'd never get a rest.

- A cruise missile costs MILLIONS. First to get the ship, sub, plane, whatever close enough- then to actual use the missile.

- Both of these things would require either permission from Nigeria, or violation of their sovereignty. There are hundreds of countries with problems that don't want any help, there are countries with problems that dictate how we help, and there's the rare country that doesn't care so long as we help- the last example is VERY rare.

Sadly- kidnapping, slavery, mass murder, etc. is nothing new in Africa. This one spread like wildfire through social media and diverted everyone's attention from Miley Cyrus's new haircut- and now all the "important people" are outraged.


Wait till they find out people are eating albinos in Congo to steal their "magical powers."

No doubt Africa is a fucked up place, and I tend to agree with you on some of your posts. I don't want to send you or any other service member over there to die for BS. However, I don't see how an ODA doing some FID for a Nigerian rescue unit and some IC people doing some "here they be" work is going to bankrupt us or put lives at risk.

We don't have to put an American face on it (CAG-DEVGRU) but the assistance in training and intelligence, would probably go along way.
 
I'm all for helping the weak and oppressed. Nigeria is a commonwealth country, it has nothing to do with the USA outside of economics. The lead on this should be the UK. If the UK feels they need support they should ask for it.

I'll say it again, outside of making people feel good about #doing something, WTF is this going to achieve? Slaves will continue to be taken every day and the # bleeding hearts wont give a fuck or do anything about it. So what is achieved? We all feel good for "doing the right thing" for 200, while we ignore the thousands that Michelle Obama doesn't fucking # about?

Sleep well at night...
 
So your argument is that b/c child trafficking is prolific throughout the world, we should just not offer assistance with this one? Or that b/c it’s a Commonwealth that we should let the UK (which I’ve seen no offer of assistance from in the news) should handle it?

I get that you think it’s a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things, and I know you are correct. But my issues, is why are we (The USA), so worried about drug trafficking, weapons trafficking and not human trafficking. What really irritates me is that we have all these SOF units, designed, equipped and trained to go in and help with situations like these globally, but on this very forum (all things SOF) everyone has been about “Fuck these kids”. It’s not just this incident or just the fact that it is kids; it’s the big picture, what is the point of having all this awesome SOF, if we don’t even want to use it on saving some school kids stolen from their families and being held by Muslim extremist? Maybe my heart is bleeding, but I think if we are going to spend the money, it might be a good place to start with the children who will grow up to remember “when my own country didn’t shit to save me, these Americans did vs supporting countries like fucking Pakistan (IDK brownie points for the future vs funding for future enemies).

That all said, the bottom line is, we don’t have to spend millions of dollars and it wouldn’t take much to get these kids back. I probably agreed more with the Troll’s post as for the “why we shouldn’t get involved, or the at least get the Nigerian gov to pay the bill” but to be honest, I find it hard to believe that this is even something that is being argued. If SF and some IC guys don’t want to go do it, hire a damn PMC to do it, and take the funding to pay for it, out of the SF and IC budget. I mean shit, 4-6 trainers/advisors working with a Nigerian Btn, and some old spook who knows the area with a few hundred thousand cash to get a pin-point on the whereabouts of these kids, and this shit would have already been over.

The child trafficking throughout South America, Asia and Africa, is ridicules and something should be done about it, and if countries don’t want to spend the money, or put boots on the ground, they should at least deregulate the PMC side of things, and allow people who do give a shit, to get the funding and go do the “right thing”.

Sorry for the rant, and no I really don't want to take SF's budget away, just wondering where the lines got crossed from "liberate the oppressed" to "not our problem".

My $.02
 
All good mate, & then some. Grab a guy in Libya, SEALs go after a target. Theres the capability for sure and certain. I guess you have to pick your battles.
 
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To do it right and not totally fucking straphaBLACKHAWKDOWNging the guys on the ground, it would be millions of dollars.

Fact: Air support. A fuckton of it because evac'ing 200 girls ain't happening on a little bird.
Fact: Getting them and their shit there with more than a ruck and a pat on the ass saying GO
Fact: Logistics, period

Just flying a herc there and back is easily a mil, counting crew hours, fuel, maintenance, and associated expenses related to the mission. That's just going with the cheapest cruise burn coming out at about $200,000 in fuel alone.

This kind of event due to the amount of civilians involved isn't an ODA problem. This is a JTF problem if we had to handle it. That's a bunch of shit and a bunch of money to get all the shit there.

Even just flying a bunch of drones over there for a bit to try to just HAND them intel they didn't even ask for, would still be in the millions of dollars.

If we step in, we're going to need to break out the black card. Do I feel for those families? yeah, that shits gotta suck.
 
Dear Mister President Barack,
I am a prince of Boko Haram and have recently come into a sum of approximately 200 girls. Currently, these are in a bank that is guarded by the J-Sock. If you could confidentially wire $5000 USD to the account below...

Now thats just funny...


All BS aside, I am not trying to beat a war drum, or go tit-for-tat, just voicing some opinions. I really don’t think you need a drone on station 24/7 or a full JSOFTF to accomplish the assistance that would build some good faith with the Nigerian people, and help the Nigerian government get these girls back. I crunched the numbers a bit, it would take $1,515,600 to deploy a 12 man team for 60 days, covering travels, housing, meals, transport and $1 mil “grease the wheel funds” to get some good old fashioned Intel on who just bought 200 new burkas…But I know, that’s now how shit is done.:-/
 
@JAB I really think you overestimate almost everything about everyone's capabilities in your posts. This isn't something one ODA could even begin to handle. Rescuing 200 people from a camp in the jungle? Didn't it take an entire battalion of rangers to do something similar in WW2? Hostage rescue is the most dangerous of missions for everyone involved. Even of it was just an ODA mission, how long would it take for that ODA to train up a foreign unit to have the competency to rescue 200 school girls? An African military no less? Infinity, it would take till the end of time. That isn't even accounting for corruption and rats in the .gov over there. As someone who as actually trained and advised foreign SOF I can tell you with certainty, it is not as easy as you have laid it out to be.

What would happen if the mission failed(which is likely)? All those friends you think we would make would suddenly not be so friendly.

As to the cost? Yeah it would be expensive. Very very expensive.
 
@JAB I really think you overestimate almost everything about everyone's capabilities in your posts. This isn't something one ODA could even begin to handle. Rescuing 200 people from a camp in the jungle? Didn't it take an entire battalion of rangers to do something similar in WW2? Hostage rescue is the most dangerous of missions for everyone involved. Even of it was just an ODA mission, how long would it take for that ODA to train up a foreign unit to have the competency to rescue 200 school girls? An African military no less? Infinity, it would take till the end of time. That isn't even accounting for corruption and rats in the .gov over there. As someone who as actually trained and advised foreign SOF I can tell you with certainty, it is not as easy as you have laid it out to be.

What would happen if the mission failed(which is likely)? All those friends you think we would make would suddenly not be so friendly.

As to the cost? Yeah it would be expensive. Very very expensive.

So an SF ODA cannot train a Btn of Nigerian soldiers to conduct a rescue operation in their own backyard?

Fuck, I could get 12 squared away NCO's to train a Btn, especially when the HN is English speaking. Its not like I am saying build a commando unit, I'm talking take a Btn of Nigerians soldier and square them up a bit...

Either way you guys are the experts, if you say you need millions of dollars, drones, air support, and a Btn of Rangers, roger that.
 
So an SF ODA cannot train a Btn of Nigerian soldiers to conduct a rescue operation in their own backyard?

Fuck, I could get 12 squared away NCO's to train a Btn, especially when the HN is English speaking. Its not like I am saying build a commando unit, I'm talking take a Btn of Nigerians soldier and square them up a bit...

Either way you guys are the experts, if you say you need millions of dollars, drones, air support, and a Btn of Rangers, roger that.

IF an SF ODA had been training a unit for a year or two, yes they might be capable of training a unit of Nigerian soldiers to conduct a rescue operation in their own backyard.

Have you ever worked with a foreign unit? One that has no concept of an NCO system, a corrupt officer corps, no support, and maybe shoots a couple hundred rounds a year. Whos soldiers are conscripted and have little to no education? You don't just roll into a third world country and "square them up a bit". If this was going to be done, you would need to train up a commando unit if you did not want everyone involved to end up dead. That includes the girls, the Nigerian soldiers and the terrorists.
 
IF an SF ODA had been training a unit for a year or two, yes they might be capable of training a unit of Nigerian soldiers to conduct a rescue operation in their own backyard.

Have you ever worked with a foreign unit? One that has no concept of an NCO system, a corrupt officer corps, no support, and maybe shoots a couple hundred rounds a year. Whos soldiers are conscripted and have little to no education? You don't just roll into a third world country and "square them up a bit". If this was going to be done, you would need to train up a commando unit if you did not want everyone involved to end up dead. That includes the girls, the Nigerian soldiers and the terrorists.

Would the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps (ICDC) back 2004 count? LOL

No worries man, I'm just running my suck. I don't know what you guys do outside of the very little I read.

I withdraw my opinions, we should do nothing, b/c it will cost too much and its not worth it.
 
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