Kidnapped Nigerian Girls

Should the US intervene to assist in the recovery of the kidnapped Nigerian schoolgirls?

  • yes

    Votes: 24 50.0%

  • no

    Votes: 24 50.0%
  • Total voters
    48
  • Poll closed .
Listen to the people that know wtf they're talking about. X_SF_med is spot on with his post, as have been basically everyone except you IMHO.

Being blunt, it's not like you actually were in SOF or remotely know of what it takes to actually mount special operations beyond what's been shared here or has been publicized. I find it rather chuckleworthy that you're getting bent out of shape about getting hit with the reality brick about it.
 
JAB said:
Go back and read what I posted, it has not been edited and I am not spinning things around, etc. You guys keep getting stuck on making this a “Team America” rescue mission b/c that would give a better success ratio, I wont disagree that the success percentage will increase, but that shouldn’t happen. We should not be sending our forces in there to rescue these girls; the Nigerians will not want our forces on the ground in that capacity. Throughout this thread, I have never stated “send the Rangers and everyone else”. I said we should be doing something, and I spelled that out in offering some FID and IC assistance to the Nigerian forces.

A couple of you stated that my 60 days with $1,515,600 budget idea is not enough time and not enough funds. So okay, its not enough time or funds, I got it, no worries. I am not disagreeing with you or anyone else, I am just stating I crunched the number using googlefu, and I can pay travel, housing, meals, incidentals, and a $500 a person day rate to put 12 guys on ground for 60 days. That’s with giving them way more spending cash than they would need and rounding the funds up everywhere I went, and the grand total was $515,600. I tossed in $1 million cash to buy information and grease wheels (i.e. develop some informants, pay off locals, etc). I never said that’s what an SFODA would need, I never said that that would guarantee 100% recovery of all the school girls, I simply stated based on the number crunching, you could put 12 knowledgeable people on the ground for that amount, that can give some assistance to the Nigerian security forces.

So that would not be helpful in your opinion, I got it, again, no worries...
Click to expand...

Tell you what... you set up "JABwater" build the contacts internationally, build the cred internationally, recruit the talent, build infrastructure, have the GFOD in place and then put those 12 'knowledgeable' people on the ground to accomplish the mission.... what about your pre insertion intel, multiple exfil plans, did you forget permission to carry weapons and ammo in a foreign country, getting 'invited' to that contry in the first place... and where is your 'collateral damage' insurance......... You put 12 essentially underequipped civilians into a country they know nothing about to plan a mission without any contacts and enough money in their 'intel' account to get them killed multiple times by the good guys.......... You planned "Deliverance on Steroids" starring Larry Darryl, Darryl, Joe Bob and Clem....... with Boko Haram as the rednecks.
 
I'd like to revisit some earlier posts before this thread gets too far off track.

To begin with, several people have observed that "we should act," "we must act," "we have an obligation," etc. I fundamentally reject all of those arguments.

The US is under no such blanket obligation. Let me check the Constitution... nope, nothing about "solve all the world's problems for them" there. Anything in the US Code? Nope, nothing that I'm aware of (although I must admit I haven't read all of them). Supreme Court decisions? Can't think of any. Presidential directives? Probably not, since it wouldn't be Constitutional. Treaty requirements? Don't think so. So why do people say we're somehow obligated to intervene?

Now, as far as the cost goes, I think that's moot because we have yet to set the parameters of what our endstate needs to be. We should start with the endstate--an ACHIEVEABLE endstate--and work backwards from there.

So, what is the desired endstate for a US intervention in this situation?

Finally, having said all of the above, I re-iterate that the US *should* get involved and help Nigeria recover their citizens and end the threat of Boko Haram, but only to a limited extent that enables Nigeria to do the work it should be doing itself, and only because such action helps serve US interests.
 
The endstate should be Nigerian forces getting back as many of those girls as possible, establishing it internal security and capabilities to stop future kidnappings and take the offensive on Boko Haram, before Nigeria become a failed state and further destabilizes the region. Why should we get involved now? Because the problem will grow to a point where the international community will demand action, which likely will require boots on the ground to deal with.

Outside of that, morally I think the world has an obligation to stop human trafficing (not just us).

But obviously my opinions don't matter...
 
@Marauder06 - I agree with your assessment, we are under no politically deigned obligation to solve the problems of any other nation, especially given the issues here at home, where we are politically and morally obligated to protect and nurture our own citizens (further issues here, but that's not germane to this discussion). What end state do we wish to achieve? Stabilization of the current Nigerian political entity, corruption, nepotism, infighting and divisional separations? A governmental change to a more 'acceptable' model? What are the far flung repercussions of any action we take to facilitate any end state - political, moral, ethical, fiscal, and reputational? Do we reinstate a modern form of the Monroe doctrine based on the needs of Nigeria? It will be expected - in a form closer to a global New Deal... a benevolent empire where we prop up chosen regions to propagate US policies where we decide that those regions have unacceptable political or social mechanisms? Do we fall into the abyss of our current and Russia's past in Afghanistan, only targeted globally? We are risking reputational and financial ruin should we choose this path without a direct request from any government, Nigeria specifically in this case.

@JAB - the moral and ethical implications of human trafficking are tragic and wrong based on our current Judeo-Christian mindset - BUT, human trafficking/slavery are called for in the Q'ran for all unbelievers, and we as European Christians dabbled in this horrific practice for centuries in the Christian and Pre-Christian eras; Africa and the indigenous cultures there still practice slavery between tribes, it is rampant throughout the world. We cannot force our beliefs on others simply because we believe we are 'right'... Were we to unilaterally place ourselves into this situation, we could be expected to reply with force or training for every tribal slave raid throughout the world. I agree, the situation is horrific, BUT if we wipe out Boko Haram, will we feed the fire of Islamic fundamentalism and create 10 more groups worse than Boko Haram?

This situation needs to be looked at in more than a microscopic slide, it needs to be addressed by looking at all the ramifications that could spawned - like a viral culture... The issue is akin Pandora's Box... if we open it, what will fly out that can never be put back? And, will what we have wrought destroy us, or inflict suffering on us for eternity?
 
inside of an NDA, who says "we" haven't been on the ground all along, collecting, training.....Oh look----FID.

Mara hit the nail on the head, you don't go in planning to fail, you go in with SUCCESS as your endstate but you do plan for contingencies.

Another point to consider - as the threat level goes up, so does the cost of doing bizness.
 
CQB said:
A background brief.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/05/23/nigerias_house_of_cards_growth_boko_haram_inequality
Click to expand...

and an excellent background brief!!

More today:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...w-location-of-almost-300-abducted-schoolgirls

Nigeria officials 'know location' of almost 300 abducted schoolgirls
NIGERIAN officials have tonight claimed they know the location of almost 300 schoolgirls abducted by militant Islamist group Boko Haram.
Click to expand...

BUT.........and has been discussed, insulted, re-discussed, re-insulted....the price tag is not only counted in USD (and as I stated the price goes higher ie, more bullets more time on the ground, more intel collect as the threat level rises) this price will be paid in blood, and innocent blood at that.
That's one reason this is such a delicate operation. The Nigerian sovereignty must be recognized (and lets just say it, palms greased) so that they receive the credit when this gets resolved, and yes, with US taxpayer dollars.

As the poll questions "To go or not to go"? I would go, and I would go IOT see those little faces when the pipehitters picked them up in their arms and told them "It's OK, you're going home now". Price be damned.

captives.JPG
​
 
I took a few days to reflect on my comments, some of them are pretty foolish and well outside my lane of knowledge. I get a bit worked up over the child trafficing and when I don't understand comments from people I tend to admire, I have a tendency to shit my brain out and post foolish things. I do apologize if I offended anyone, and although a hard pill to swallow at times, appreciate the "tune up". I'll stay in my lane.
 
Granted it's not Nigeria, but it's interesting that Nigerianwatch.com saw fit to post it. Kudos to these ladies for protecting their own.

LOCAL women in the villages of Attagara and Kawuri in Borno State disarmed 10 Boko Haram terrorists who tried to attack their communities over the weekend resulting in the lynching of seven of the insurgents. As part of its ongoing reign of terror, Boko Haram tried to spread its operations to Attagara and Kawuri villages in Gwoza and Bama Local Government Areas of Borno State. However, they were resisted by a group of women using local charms among other things and were disarmed. After the women repelled the attacks, they then raised the alarm and the rest of the community rallied round to apprehend the insurgents. Three of the terrorists fled but seven were arrested and lynched by an irate mob. One resident said the attackers invaded the village yesterday on motorcycles but ran into the women and wanted to hit them with sticks but when they raised the sticks, their hands refused to descend. The women then notified the local vigilante group, which rushed to the scene, disarmed the seven insurgents and lynched them. According to the resident: “Three of the insurgents fled but seven were not lucky as the women alerted the people.” Attagara, a border community with Cameroon is about 10 kilometres southeast of Pulka District in Gwoza Local Government Area of Borno State and about 130 kilometres from Maiduguri, the state capital. Of late, local people across Borno state have stepped up the fightback against Boko Haram, having borne the brunt of its brutal terrorist campaign. Yesterday, scores of gunmen suspected to be members of Boko Haram were killed yesterday through the combined efforts of members of the vigilante youths, otherwise known as the Civilian Joint Task Force and the military in Kawuri village in Bama Local Government Area of Borno State. Mamman Yakubu, a vigilante youth that participated in repelling the insurgents, said they lynched the terrorists because Boko Haram members hardly reveal any secrets when arrested. One top security source, who confirmed the incident, said that three dead bodies of the terrorists were recovered yesterday morning in Kawuri. He added that more of the terrorists were killed in a nearby bus, close to Kawuri when they attempted to flee to the Sambisa Forest. - See more at: http://www.nigerianwatch.com/news/4...eir-communities#sthash.0YQEAuaW.Exp4Mp7L.dpuf

The comments section is interesting.

LL
 
LibraryLady said:
Granted it's not Nigeria, but it's interesting that Nigerianwatch.com saw fit to post it.
LL
Click to expand...

Actually Borno state is in Nigeria.



Boko Haram is conducting raids armed with sticks now??? :hmm:
Glad those African charms are still working...
 

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