Las Vegas Shooting

Ooh-Rah said:
Muppet - I just cannot wrap my head around discussing the event itself; so allow me to talk around it? In your role as an EMT (if I have your title wrong please forgive and correct!), what happens when something like this begins?

Is it "all hands on deck" and every available ambulance and police tears off to the area, or is it much more coordinated than that?

Same goes for ER's....do they stop taking patients, or just become significantly more choosy until the casualties begin to roll in?
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All has been stated. There are different levels of MCIs (mascals). Dispatch knows the levels per protocol and sends MICUs, fire dept, placed medevacs on stand by, places county in code red status, pulls from different end of county or from out of area. In hospital have disaster protocols also. The term ICS or incident command system is the structure we would operate from, utilizing typical civ EMS, fire protocols, in cases like this, due to the injuries, obvious combat medicine protocols would be used. This though, this is beyond many of us have ever seen except for Veterans that were in the shit, ambush from height into crowd. This is a once in lifetime event for most if not all providers. The last MCI I was involved in, started off as EMS ops part of ICS was a Valentines day crash on the P.A. Turnpike, 15 miles long, 70 green tages, 10 red tages, 25 yellow. This even is sickening, like all others. I read that one fire medic from Clarke County pronounced 20, yeah, 20 vics dead himself. There are MCI protocols to allow for this. Circulation, airway / breathing and mental status. If none, BLACK tag, move on to those you can salvage, like in combat. I have been involved in making these judgements and not a day goes by that I wonder of I made the right choice on walking over a dead teenager on I95 to salvage another one.....

M.
 
The good:

Help has been coming in faster than actual news. Blood donors are being asked to make appointments now. Some places had a 5 hour wait to give. The latest information is that they are booked out to Thursday.

Water, blankets, food, and other essentials were swamping the cops. Metro PD is now asking people to take donations to one of the convention centers here.

The County Commissioners have started a Go Fund Me page for the victims.
Click here to support LAS VEGAS VICTIMS' FUND organized by Steve Sisolak
 
Muppet said:
This though, this is beyond many of us have ever seen except for Veterans that were in the shit, ambush from height into crowd. This is a once in lifetime event for most if not all providers. The last MCI I was involved in, started off as EMS ops part of ICS was a Valentines day crash on the P.A. Turnpike, 15 miles long, 70 green tages, 10 red tages, 25 yellow. This even is sickening, like all others.
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This far (FAR) exceeds anything like what I have seen, downrange included. I think my biggest civilian MCI was maybe 20ish from a MVC with about 10 red tags. A shooting....a dozen shot, maybe 7 red tag. These were big events that taxed an EMS system and two local level 1 trauma centers. The numbers in Vegas are staggering beyond the pale. They are monumental natural disaster or WMD numbers.
 
Devildoc said:
This far (FAR) exceeds anything like what I have seen, downrange included. I think my biggest civilian MCI was maybe 20ish from a MVC with about 10 red tags. A shooting....a dozen shot, maybe 7 red tag. These were big events that taxed an EMS system and two local level 1 trauma centers. The numbers in Vegas are staggering beyond the pale. They are monumental natural disaster or WMD numbers.
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Agreed bro.

M.
 
Unfuckingbelievable. Shooter had full-auto weapons & it took police 72 minutes to identify his position. That's a lot of time to be under fire.

Security forces were not prepared for a shooter firing from such a height, and you can't blame them since most mass shootings have been from ground level. That will now change.

But this takes us back to Charles Whitman in the Texas Tower.
 
Ocoka said:
Unfuckingbelievable. Shooter had full-auto weapons & it took police 72 minutes to identify his position. That's a lot of time to be under fire.

Security forces were not prepared for a shooter firing from such a height, and you can't blame them since most mass shootings have been from ground level. That will now change.

But this takes us back to Charles Whitman in the Texas Tower.
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I am not sure how you defend against it. And the whole cost / risk analysis scheme of things, it would be extraordinarily expensive to try to engineer against that, without an ability to measure the efficacy. At some point the risk has to be measured against the cost of what it is to live in a free Society.

I don't have all the answers. I don't have any answers. If I did I certainly wouldn't be doing what I am doing now.
 
NPR was reporting the gunman had 19 rifles in his room, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, and at least 2 rifles mounted on tripods. The shooter was a 64 year old male with substantial gambling debts - some incurred recently - and killed himself before/as police arrived.

All reports are suspect - especially the first ones - so I think all news/data has to be taken with a grain of salt but it seems like the picture emerging is not aligned to a politically motivated or terrorist motivated attack and the response taking down the shooter was more in line with the Austin tower shooter as @Ocoka mentioned.
 
Red Flag 1 said:
We ran a lot of Mass Casualty exercises from the USAF IG Team. Sometimes the local communities would join in to add to their exercise requirements. We never ran an event that had these many casualties. We often talked about it, but in a peacetime setting the numbers were just not supported. The world has changed, and has become a more dangerous place to live. Today the number of worldwide casualties have gone to the next level. We are nearly at a limited wartime footing now. The number of Mass Cas events has spiked and has stayed there. The number of events has spiked and continues to climb. We are living through a time that is much more dangerous. It makes one begin to think that events with large numbers of people need much tighter security, or need to stop altogether. Time will tell. My thought is that large outdoor events will begin to fall away because of the risk that is becoming more common now. Large indoor events are easier to secure, as are events in outdoor stadiums with limited access points. Times have changed and this event is going to be the game changer.
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For those not familiar with Las Vegas and to reiterate Red Flag's assessment of the outdoor situation, this is where the festival was held; on the Strip, outside, three days with fantastic weather guaranteeing high attendance. No cover and no hides from someone on the 32nd floor.
Oct1.jpg
 
As most of us here know, the stakes are higher when the shooter has a commanding position from a height...more so in urban terrain with high buildings where there are so many potential hides for snipers. It takes too long a time to identify the source and maneuver into a position to counter fire.

Whitman, the Texas Tower Sniper, was on the 28th floor and kept up fire for 96 minutes before cops could get to him and kill him. An eternity.
 
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This thing is horrible all around. Most of my thoughts are kind of moot right now, especially with the off-the-cuff information flow foud so often after a monumental tragedy. Sadly, opinions are already being formed the world over based upon cherry picked "facts";I'll rfrain from such reindeer games.

I'm glad our members are okay. The KC-130 crash, this, the war...too many events hitting "home" here on SS.

Blue Skies.
 
AWP said:
This thing is horrible all around. Most of my thoughts are kind of moot right now, especially with the off-the-cuff information flow foud so often after a monumental tragedy. Sadly, opinions are already being formed the world over based upon cherry picked "facts";I'll rfrain from such reindeer games.

I'm glad our members are okay. The KC-130 crash, this, the war...too many events hitting "home" here on SS.

Blue Skies.
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Hard agree, I've heard everything from white nationalist gun nut to false flag CIA leftist operation to incite more hate for Trump. All we can do right now as the chaos settles and we get a clearer picture of the motives behind this is to make sure our loved ones and neighbors are safe.

God speed to everyone affected.
 
Seems part of the issue is venue design which, ironically, is a result of security concerns but in an emergency has the unintended consequence of creating a bottleneck due to limited entry/exit points.

This is an issue with many large venues whether inside or out; the Bataclan theater shooting in Paris (shooters were also in an elevated position firing from the balcony down to the floor area) or the club shooting in Orlando as examples. Even without an active shooter situation, this type of setup has issues (ex. The Station nightclub fire).

In this case it was further exploited by the high rate of fire and elevated position - it was akin to shooting fish in a barrel; concert goers were tightly amassed with no where to retreat or find cover. Until concert-goers were able to break through barriers, etc. they unfortunately were trapped in the open with bullets raining down on them.

That's simply horrific.

There are some amazing stories emerging of concert-goers turned first responders. True force multipliers given the scale of this tragedy.
 
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We're up to 59 dead.

What surprises me is that over 24 hours later we still don't have a motive. This was heavily planned, bu there's no obvious note or video explaining "why?"
 

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