Lower the Drinking Age on Base to 18?

[Marauder06]

A North Dakota state representative wants to lower the drinking age for members of the military to 18, both on post and (in a planned amendment) off post. Good idea or not?

http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/ne...uld-allow-underage-service-members-drink-base

 

[TLDR20]

Nope. That would be a fucking disaster. And it isn't like they can't get the liqour now.

 

[DA SWO]

Don't we have enough alcohol related incidents already?

 

[Il Duce]

I don't recommend it and voted no but I believe the logic behind it is essentially to say they're going to drink anyway, this allows it to be done in a controlled environment with no need to drive afterwards. Ft. Huachuca tried it several years ago. It did indeed cut down on DUIs but SIRs on post skyrocketed especially in the SHARP arena.

 

[AWP]

I understand the logic, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea. Good initiative, poor judgement.

 

[LibraryLady]

I'm from the era of open bases and drinking ages in states that were less than 21. I see nothing good coming from this. If it passes than civilians will whine about military special privileges until they get it. Our society is not like some others in the world with less than 21 drinking ages, it will be disastrous.

LL

 

[RackMaster]

I don’t see the problem. If you can serve your country, you should be able to have a drink and vote. Just ensure there's proper regulations and enforce them accordingly. And put out more mandatory education on addiction, substance abuse, ect.

 

[DA SWO]

I don’t see the problem. If you can serve your country, you should be able to have a drink and vote. Just ensure there's proper regulations and enforce them accordingly. And put out more mandatory education on addiction, substance abuse, ect.

More PowerPoint presentations will not make Soldiers (Sailors, Airmen and Marines) responsible.
I am not keen on letting the under 21 crowd into the military in the first place.

 

[Red Flag 1]

Age and alcohol matter to some degree. More important is the culture, and how alcohol use is viewed, taught, and practiced. In many European countrys, alcohol use becomes a part of life. Here in the States, we use a modified prohibition of alcohol usage. Pick the age, 18, 21, or numbers in between; what ever the age it becomes a challenge for the under aged. When I grew up, it was 18, but the "cool" guys were always able to come up with a suply by diect or indirect means; it never stopped the access to alcohol. If you think the age of 21 prevents the use of alcohol anywhere:-"; you know where I am headed. My vote is for 18 on base, and teach responsible use. Holding out for 21, only promotes a challenge, that in itself is irresponsible usage at the first sip. My $.02; cheers everyone.

 

[pardus]

I don’t see the problem. If you can serve your country, you should be able to have a drink and vote. Just ensure there's proper regulations and enforce them accordingly. And put out more mandatory education on addiction, substance abuse, ect.

Makes sense to me. The legal age is 18 where I'm from anyway.
At least this way it would be legal and the troops would be in bars etc... where they can be policed/looked after better, rather than hiding in a hotel etc...

That's not to say there wouldn't be problems with it.
I think making people wait until they are 21 to drink, makes them frustrated and then they tend to go a little crazy when they are finally legal.
I first noticed that during my highschool years, when the "good" kids who didn't drink like the rest of us, went to university, they went crazy with alcohol, drinking themselves stupid with rapid binge drinking.
I see the same immature attitude to alcohol in youngsters here.
I appreciate that I was allowed into bars when I was young, I was surrounded by adults who would and did give you a tune up if you stepped out of line.

 

[AWP]

To digress a bit but on topic, our post-9/11 society has place service members on a pedestal. I'm all for respecting our service but I think we've gone too far. I believe this causes problems when one of us does something wrong, he/ she becomes the vet with PTSD. A rape occurs and how could we do this? People won't always like us, people will always hate us, people will always misunderstand us, but I think we've gone a bit too far in our adulation of those in uniform.

Joe of all ages, but usually those in their 20's or late teens, tends to be the largest demographic for making bad decisions. Curiously, this is the bulk of our junior enlisted and NCO's, but now we'd lower the drinking age to 18? those of you were are/ were at Bragg can't tighten my shot group here, but how often did the post see a DUI-related fatality? Not even a wreck with major injuries or a generic DUI stop, but a death? Now we'd add 18 year olds to that mix?

I understand the sentiment that if they are old enough to die for their country then they are old enough for a drink; I used to think the same thing. Now that I'm older and can look back with some 20/20 or 20/30 hindsight, lowering the drinking age is a bad, bad idea. Motorcycle fatalities aren't curbed through Powerpoint or a weekend safety brief. Reflective belts have done what for us exactly? Rape is still a problem, but we have classes on that and advocates and everything else. We also have a myriad of other topics which fall under "people being people" so why would we add gas to the fire? Hell, every year my company "trains" us through CBT's and email reminders on how to act in a foreign country. Don't stand out, take different routes to/ from work, plan your actions, etc. I know of DOZENS who don't follow those steps here in Afghanistan. People are weak, soft, complacent, and that story will play out until the end of time.

We need to balance rights and privileges against bad ideas or against our own failings as human beings. Unfettered access to alcohol at 18 is a bad, bad idea.

 

[Crusader74]

Without even looking at the results thus far, I voted NO. Our drinking culture has changed somewhat to what it was only 15 years ago when at lunch time you could go into a mess and order a pint. It's more of a taboo now to drink excessively as was once a norm. We deal with a multitude of incidents all arising from alcohol or intoxicants as they're referred to now both home and overseas.. I can off the top of my head mention two serious incidents both arising from over indulgence or abusing alcohol and both will face a military Judge in the coming weeks.

 

[Evans]

I think that would be a terrible idea. We already see tons of ADAPT referrals coming in for underage drinking, and it's never the only charge. It's usually followed by a DUI, DWI, Drunk and Disorderly, etc. Lowering the age wouldn't cause the other issues to just magically go away, we would probably see a rise if the age was decreased. Those who go crazy on their 21st birthday because they "earned it" or they "waited their time" only shows how immature they are. Either way, no matter what the age limit is, stupid people will always do stupid things based on stupid decisions. Dumb people+Alcohol=ADAPT referral, it's just science....

 

[DA SWO]

I despise most of GO1, but understand the alcohol restrictions. It's not a new problem, and in this environment a career killer.
18-21 year olds whack themselves on a daily basis, adding alcohol just increases the carnage.
FWIW- In TX a minor can drink in a restaurant if the parents/guardian buy for them.
My 8 year old has a small glass that we fill with wine/beer on occasion in the hope that he doesn't binge drink once he hit college.

 

[policemedic]

I say yes. I grew up where the legal age was 18, so I really don't see it as a problem.

I also believe that if you're willing to pick up a rifle and charge that hill then you should be able to drink a beer.

 

[AWP]

My 8 year old has a small glass that we fill with wine/beer on occasion in the hope that he doesn't binge drink once he hit college.

We allowed our daughter a half a glass of wine once or twice a year since since she was about 14. Over time we upped that to a full glass. She's 19 and if she goes to a party and thinks she'll drink, she'll tell us and stay the night. Both (yes, that many times) she was home at 9AM. No hangover, doesn't smell like a distillery, perfectly sober. I'd like to think that we took the cool and forbidden aspects out of drinking and raised a responsible adult.

I'm also realistic and know you and I are in the minority where parenting is concerned.

 

[CDG]

I say yes. I grew up where the legal age was 18, so I really don't see it as a problem.

I also believe that if you're willing to pick up a rifle and charge that hill then you should be able to drink a beer.

This is a false equivalency though. It's certainly the go-to argument, and one I used to subscribe to, but does it really make sense? For starters, and this has been mentioned here before, it's a relatively small percentage of the military that has a mission of "pick up a rifle and charge that hill" or something similar. The 18 year-old personnel clerk provides a valuable function, but they aren't charging hills or picking up rifles. So the argument premise of every person constantly risking their life, thereby deserving booze whenever they want, is false. Secondly, I don't believe the logic of "if you do X, you deserve Y" is applicable here. They're completely unrelated and it has the potential to raise recruitment for the wrong reasons. How do you think it plays out if the only place you can legally drink under 21 is in the military? It probably wouldn't be an epidemic, but there would certainly be kids joining up thinking they'll get their drink on for 4 years and separate when they're legal in the civilian world. I believe it would lead to a MASSIVE increase in alcohol-related incidents, from sexual assault to fatalities. 18 year-old Joe does not need to be able to booze it up at will. Other cultures do it differently and good for them. I think we probably should take a page out of that book. We don't though, and we're probably never going to, so it is what it is. Bad idea, IMHO.

Edited to fix minor grammatical errors.

 

[pardus]

Alcohol used to be an issued item, not too long ago...

 

[AWP]

Alcohol used to be an issued item, not too long ago...

So were cigarettes. Just because we used to do something doesn't mean it was right.

 

[racing_kitty]

I'd like to be on board with it, but too many of the troops that this would be directly affecting haven't been raised to be responsible for keeping a houseplant alive, much less responsibly consume alcohol in a civilized manner. For every one family that's either raised their child(ren) abroad or comprised of at least one parent whose cultural background included responsible consumption from an early age, you're going to have several more families that are headed by the "cool friend-parents" that bought their kids the kegs of beer when Buffy and Biff decided to host the spring fling for their high school frat/sorority (that's actually a thing here). Looking at the caliber of privates that came in throughout the years after I enlisted, the amount of common sense they possess has visibly decreased, and a large part of that comes from piss poor parenting.

If there were some kind of effective education about how to drink responsibly that came at the same time as BRM, that would be terrific. Get it into their minds that if they are going to drink until they pass out, do it where they are going to spend the night. Not at the bar, not in the corner booth at the restaurant, but at home or his own barracks. Reinforce the designated driver/sober wing man concept, as well. Basically, the military would wind up doing one more thing that the parents should have done, but didn't. The good news is that while enlistee common sense might be in the cellar, there are some who learn and turn themselves around quickly. Those are the ones who wouldn't be a pox upon the military with a drinking age of 18.