Lubricant Discussion

amlove21 said:
AND another update...

I shot the Barrett M107 (.50 caliber designated marksman weapon)
Click to expand...
M107 Long Range Sniper Rifle. I don't think your typical squad is going to be sporting one of those bad boys on patrol. Just sayin.
Reed

Also, if you want me to recheck your test with the M107, feel free to ship some FL this way.:thumbsup:
Reed
 
reed11b said:
M107 Long Range Sniper Rifle. I don't think your typical squad is going to be sporting one of those bad boys on patrol. Just sayin.
Reed
Click to expand...
Well, since NATO says it's sort of inhumane to actually snipe someone with the round, we (in the AF) aren't allowed to refer to it as a "sniper weapon". Yes, I know that's the actual nomenclature, and yes, that's stupid.

That, and our teams don't have snipers, they have "Designated Marksmen" or "Long Range Anti Personnel (LRAP)" teams. I am a DM and the LRAP team lead at the SQ, so naturally I would NEVER dream of hitting personnel, only vehicles. That's why the qualification used IPSIC and people shaped silhouettes.... wait :rolleyes:

reed11b said:
Also, if you want me to recheck your test with the M107, feel free to ship some FL this way.:thumbsup:
Reed
Click to expand...
Lol, I just re-ordered some more for my bag, I gave away some samples at the course. It's like 30 bucks, man!
 
Etype said:
Since I'm a habitually using the Fitness/Nutrition section to think out loud, I figured I'd let it overflow into here as well.

So here's a couple things I've noticed about purpose made gun lubes-
  • Most of them suck.
  • Their operating range is usually relatively low (160 deg for CLP, for example).
    • The crusty stuff on high temp parts is a product of burned lubricant and carbon. Carbon on it's own doesn't cake on and make that nastiness.
  • They have a poor viscosity for weapons.
    • Rem Oil, for example, seems to be very popular. I see people with that garbage on the range all the time, and it seems to be only slightly thicker than water. It's like sewing machine oil with a bit of a caramel tint.
  • Carbon has lubricating properties of it's own, using solvents to remove it isn't particularly necessary. If a lubricant is working properly (penetrating and not dropping), you should be able to wipe parts clean.

So here's what I've been doing for the last couple years- I've been using Castrol Syntech 5W-50.
  • Motor oil is exposed to temperatures in excess of 600 degrees in diesel engines.
  • Multi-grade oil perform across a broad spectrum of tolerances and temperatures since they have the properties of both oils.
    • I use 5W-50 because it's the broadest range I could find.
    • Since the stuff doesn't burn off on high temp parts like gas regulators and bolts, I never have to scrape crispy carbon off.
    • I also never use any solvents to clean other parts. Since the stuff maintains a decent film wherever you put it, it wipes clean with an oily rag.
What's everyone else using? How about white lithium grease or gear oil?
Click to expand...

For the same reasons, i use Mobil 1 Super 5W-40 (semi-synthetic engine oil). Easy to find, and works well in humid environments.
 
amlove21 said:
Well, since NATO says it's sort of inhumane to actually snipe someone with the round
Click to expand...
Is that actually on the record anywhere? I've heard people talk about it, mostly on the conventional side (and usually Marines) but have never heard it in an ROE brief. I've always heard that every weapon in our arsenal from 9mm-120mm is approved for use against personnel or we wouldn't have it.
 
As far as I know, yes it's written. The terminal ballistics of the .50 cal (even ball) is violent enough to warrant NATO saying that it causes undue casualties.

Ill look it up and see exactly where it's written, but I have always been led to believe that it's not kosher to use the .50 specifically for personnel.
 
amlove21 said:
As fat as I know, yes it's written. The terminal ballistics of the .50 cal (even ball) is violent enough to warrant NATO saying that it causes undue casualties.

Ill look it up and see exactly where it's written, but I have always been led to believe that it's not kosher to use the .50 specifically for personnel.
Click to expand...
A Mk19 causes some pretty awesome casualties as well- 30mm gun runs and Mk84 series bombs are pretty great, too.
 
Yeah, I've been plugging around all sides (secret and regular) of a bunch of regs, ROE, SRUF's, and can't find much in the way of hard facts. A couple of Internet sites have said that it s somewhat of a military urban legend, which I am starting to believe myself. Still looking for definitive word though.

I think the idea is that the .50 (when employed by a helo or a hummer, for example) is an area suppression weapon used for vehicles, buildings etc. the only thing I can see is If there is some sort of precise verbiage stating that a single .50 cal round intentionally fired from a sniper platform against personnel is somehow illegal in NATO/GC eyes. But the chance of that are slim at this point.

Ill look a bit further and see if this isn't BS after all.
 
amlove21 said:
As far as I know, yes it's written. The terminal ballistics of the .50 cal (even ball) is violent enough to warrant NATO saying that it causes undue casualties.
Click to expand...
Well if it is written, I didn't find it anywhere. That leads me to believe the OP doesn't know much. The .50 cal ball round is legal as far as NATO is concerned (as long as it isn't one of the incendiary variants not to include the tracer round). The terminal ballistics are indeed the issue, but it deals more not with the effect on the intended target, but the possibility of the round carrying enough force to pass through the target completely and cause other casualties not intended by the shooter.


The question is still in debate as late as 2010 whether the round violates the "Martic Principle". A simple explanation is here- In case IT-95-11-R61 before the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia. Milan Martic, former President of the Republic of Serbian Krajina, was found guilty of reprisals against the Croatian civilian population. Specifically, he was found to have authorized the firing of Orkan rockets into Zagrab on May 2 and 3, 1995, thereby intentionally causing civilian casualties. The Court manufactured a novel new argument for liability. It accepted dubious prosecution testimony that the Orkan was “relatively inaccurate” due to it having a CEP (circular error probable) of 600 meters when fired from 50 kilometers. What the CEP means is that some Orkans might precisely hit their target and others might miss by anywhere up to 600 meters. As a result of this prosecution testimony, the Court set forth a fairly vague standard. It essentially ruled that weapons that are inaccurate, which term is not defined, are weapons of terror and serve no military purpose.

I have a feeling that the ".50 cal isn't legal for use" had it's first legs when this specific issue was discussed, but I can't say for sure. Long story short, even if you are led to believe something, look it up and verify your source. I'll read that again for my own use. :thumbsup:
 
I did a pretty detailed rebuttal of this rumor here on the site some time back. AFAIK, you can engage any lawful target with any standard weapon and/or ammo you are issued.
 
amlove21 said:
Well if it is written, I didn't find it anywhere. That leads me to believe the OP doesn't know much. The .50 cal ball round is legal as far as NATO is concerned (as long as it isn't one of the incendiary variants not to include the tracer round).
Click to expand...
All we use for AP use is the Mk211 HE/API, that definitely has more ass than an M8 ball round.
 
Yeah, a lot more ass indeed. I did find many things (completely unrelated to this or the original discussion) today that I didn't know. Overall, I don't mind being wrong as long as I ended up getting the right info.

It was funny- the 3 Army guys and some of the guys in the shop all said the same thing. "Yeah, I am pretty sure it's supposed to be vehicles only. Isn't it? I've always heard that. Wait- isn't it?!"
 
Marauder06 said:
I'm pretty sure that's just a rumor. You can use anything you're issued on any legitimate target. .50 cal against troops specifically included.
Click to expand...

I was told that was not only incorrect but that I/we would be in violation of "something" if we used more than the minimum required to do the job while I was deployed. This was said during our pre-mob 'laws of war' lecture. Specifically examples like If I/we used an AT4 to kill one person, then that would be an obvious overkill and therefore in violation blah blah.

Circa Jan-Mar 2012
 
pardus said:
I was told that was not only incorrect but that I/we would be in violation of "something" if we used more than the minimum required to do the job while I was deployed. This was said during our pre-mob 'laws of war' lecture. Specifically examples like If I/we used an AT4 to kill one person, then that would be an obvious overkill and therefore in violation blah blah.

Circa Jan-Mar 2012
Click to expand...
Each JAG is more or less told how to interpret the ROEs by his commander- since he works for the commander. You are allowed to use any weapon that fits the bill. Dropping a 2,000 lb bomb on a single guy emplacing an IED is ok if that's all the aircraft on station has, however, there may be some discussion if he had a 250 pounder on board. Killing a guy with a Carl Gustav at 50m is not a big deal, if that's what you happen to have in your hands at the time.

As long as there isn't undue collateral damage or CIVCAS, any weapon that we have can be used for anything. Certain commanders like to add their own bits to the ROEs, but disobeying them would be insubordination to that commander and not a violation of the ROEs.
 
Switched from the Frog to SEAL 1. The history of the product says it all. The first Bio Based CLP (the FL guy should know as he worked there first). Better price and a whole lot more product available. Love it so much we stopped selling FL and now only deal in SEAL 1.

SEAL 1 has a cinnamon smell, a red color and works great. Do your research and let me know if your interested. I use it on my duty M4, G22, AIAE and all the other toys. Glad I switched.
 

Similar threads

AWP
Cleaning/ Caring for Old Guns
Replies
6
Views
918
Topkick
Topkick
AWP
Hobby Therapy
2 3 4
Replies
76
Views
2K
Muppet
Muppet
RackMaster
British departure means uncertain future for Alberta's massive Suffield military base
Replies
0
Views
114
RackMaster
RackMaster
R.Caerbannog
Economic shifts in Central America and China
2
Replies
28
Views
2K
R.Caerbannog
R.Caerbannog
A
Intro - Ary
Replies
11
Views
2K
Ary
A
Back
Top