My first rant on a Glock

[Diamondback 2/2]

Well this is new territory for me because I am a 100% Glock guy; I have been a fan for roughly 12 years now. But the oldest one I have (G22) has been giving me problem after problem this last year and I am going to shit can it.

Back story: I bought this G22 new back in 2000 when I was working part-time as a security guard, prior to that I was an all 1911 guy, but due to the company I was working for requiring G22 as a duty weapon, I was forced to buy it. Well over time I got to see that the damn thing worked flawless and was very low care, easy to shoot and fast to teach other to use. I became a believer and being that it was my first Glock I have refused to sell it. Since then I have owned several of them (G17, G19, G26 and G21 for a short period). My G22 has several hundred thousand rounds through it, 3 new barrels, new springs, new pins, new striker, ect. It’s been put through its paces.

This year I started shooting practical competition with it and made some upgrades (stippling, sights, match barrel, recoil spring, trigger job). Since I have put another 23,000 rounds through it, and I have broken the frame pins 3 times “this year”. Before it had not been a problem, I changed them every 50,000 rds but now I am getting roughly 7,000 rounds between breaks. I am using a minor load (not even close to factory, much less being a hot load) and I am replacing the recoil spring every 5,000rds.

I have to be honest though, I am shocked the gun has lasted as long as it has. But with my total support of the Glock and the expectations that I have of the product, I am a little disappointed that these pins keep breaking. At first I thought maybe it’s just the steel, so I bought treated SS pins and they broke, then I bought titanium pins and now one of them has broken. I am pissed at this point to be honest…

This gun has broken during a match twice; there will not be a third.

I am going to be sticking with a 9mm Glock model from this point on. Not bashing the 40S&W in Glock, for most people who do not shoot all that much the factory configuration is perfect. But for extended heavy use I am going to have to say that 40 S&W is not the way to go. If you’re going to run thousands of rounds though it on a regular basis, I would recommend going with a 9mm version. I hate to put this out, but I think it’s important for people to know.

As for me I am now concerned of if I should even sell this gun knowing that it has become so problematic at this point. It might become a wall hanger or something and that really pisses me off. Almost as much as having to off load my reloading supplies and buy new seizers and dies for my reloader. I think I am going to step up to a G34 at this point, and a lot of the components on this G22 will change over so that is the only bright side as of yet.

Anyway, do what you will with the info, I just figured I would put the word out.

 

[AWP]

Just spitballing here becuase I'm sure you've thought of this:

Is the recoil spring too light despite the lighter load?
Did the pin breakage coincide ( a few thousand rounds) with a new barrel or any other mods?

Something's off, some tolerances or something. To go through that many pins in such a short period of time, that's more than wear and tear. Have you called Glock about this?

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Nah brother, I would not be posting this if it was a fixable issue, or something that was a result of a mod that I did. Honestly I believe the gun hit its service life and is just worn out at this point. I have had the problem happen with a factory barrel and recoil spring. I think it’s has more to do with the design then anything (i.e. too much force for the pins to handle over extended use). I had read about it in the past but always disregarded it and now that I have experienced it more and more commonly I have to agree with the others and say there is an issue with the G22 design.

Not something I am happy to report or like to do, but again it is what it is.

 

[AWP]

:)

Yeah, while it can be easy to have tunnel vision and miss something, I'd say a few hundred thousand rounds and anything will need a "hug", you know?

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I'm glad I'm over here and not trying to shoot USPSA. The M&P 40 Pro still isn't legal for Production. Open, Lim, and Lim 10, but they haven't hit the numbers for Prod. By then Apex will have the trigger sorted out and the wait will be moot anyway....

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

:)

Yeah, while it can be easy to have tunnel vision and miss something, I'd say a few hundred thousand rounds and anything will need a "hug", you know?

---

I'm glad I'm over here and not trying to shoot USPSA. The M&P 40 Pro still isn't legal for Production. Open, Lim, and Lim 10, but they haven't hit the numbers for Prod. By then Apex will have the trigger sorted out and the wait will be moot anyway....

Very true ;)

I did not have any luck with the M&P 9 I bought, from all the others I hear about I guess I had gotten a bad gun. I am still sticking to Glock (XDm9 as well) I want a SSP/Production gun that wont break.

I have been thinking about turning my XDm into a open gun and doing the RMR sight with a comp.:eek:

 

[Warchief]

It sounds to me like the weapon has reached the limits of its useful life. Based on your description of the numbers of rounds that you have put thru it, it gave you quality service for the majority of the time you owned it. You definitely put more rounds thru it in just a few years than the average user does over the course of their life time. I think there is a possibility that the number of rounds you put thru it caused the pin holes to microscopically enlarge. The repeated firing is causing the pins to be over stressed by the enlarged holes, ultimately leading to breakage.

My son has a glock. It shoots nice but I still prefer my CZ-75. I've got 2, a full size for home defense and a compact that I carry.

 

[HOLLiS]

Reduce loads can cause excessive chamber pressures. Cure get with someone who knows reloading

Maybe a recoil buffer? Maybe asking on a Glock forum

Finally Time for a new pistol.

 

[x SF med]

Haven't fired a lot of Glocks... Love my Xd9 and just got a Kahr CW9 (150 rds through it in 2 wks). I cut my teeth for pistols on .22s (target and HiStandards) and 1911s... then went away from all shooting for a while (ex-wife's request and living in the NYC/NJ area). JAB, give the Glock an honorable funeral, it gave you stellar service for a lot of rounds, it got old and tired.... like RB and Warchief (running away, fast... because either one will kill me when they catch me... later...)

 

[Manolito]

I wonder what would happen if you returned the weapon to its orrigial design and components.
Once I modify a piece of equipment any piece of equipment I change the engineering standards that were built into the design.
I am no gun guy I am a user or guns. I don't think I could come up with 50K round count if I totaled up all the weapons in my safe.
My personal carry is a Glock 36. I own two of them one I practice with and one I carry. The carry gun gets seven rounds through it every six months when I change out the rounds in my carry clip. The one I train with gets 50 rounds per month rain or shine 600 rounds per year. I have a Sig 239 in 40mm I shoot a lot and only carry when dressed up in a suit. I know that is some anal shit right there.
Just changing to 9mm is a savings in ammo isn't it? Sounds like the weapon served you pretty well. Quick question does Glock have a total round count that they recommend the weapon be cut up and replaced?
Bill

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I think warchief is probably right, and the reloads are fine (barley pushing 750fps with an 185gr bullet) very minor recoil/power factor. I have had the same problem with a factory configuration, and at this point I don’t trust it enough to put any more rounds through it. Again guys, I would not be posting this if I thought it was something I did or was doing to cause it. The gun is worn out, and with all signs leading to it has just reached it service life. I wish I had an actual total round count, but I quit tracking after 100K (like a dumbass) and that was around the third year of owning it.

I have a G19 that’s pretty close to the same round count, if not higher and is still running strong. Not the tightest gun, but still have yet break any thing on it.

I have a few guns that I have worn out; it’s just a factor when shooting as much as I do. I just never thought I would see it with a Glock, I began to think of them as truly unbreakable.

 

[HOLLiS]

JAB, why don't you write your tell of woe to Glock. See what they do. A little bragging at how the Glock preformed and rounds fire might help.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Hollis, I might just do that. I am by no means saying their product suck or that I am mad at Glock, this is the longest "lasting" pistol to date that I have owned outside of wheel guns.

 

[AWP]

I think Warchief and Hollis make great points. Even if it has reached the end of the trail, some brownie points with Glock can't hurt and they may pass along some knowledge for you, a discount on your next Glock, whatever. 10 min. to write a letter couldn't hurt.

 

[The91Bravo]

One last point to check before you shit can it.

Mic the dimension of your frame pin holes and frame block holes. If there is ANY play in ANY of those pinholes it will put alot more energy on the pins when they hit the rear of the wall. Thus resulting in busted frame pins. If it is worn or even keyholed by a couple thousandths of an inch, go to a machine shop, oversize the frame block holes, and make the frame holes uniform. Then replace the pins with the larger dimension. Should tighten any slop (not really appropriate because we are talking a very small dimension here) out of the action.

Think about it, there are no other parts to replace in the action itself. Slide, Frame, frame block, frame block pins. Those are the only parts that absorb energy.

Just my .02
Steve

 

[Red Flag 1]

JAB, why don't you write your tell of woe to Glock. See what they do. A little bragging at how the Glock preformed and rounds fire might help.

Have to agree with Hollis on this one. I've owned and regularly fired my Glock 17 for more years than I'd care to admit. The only problems I have had was in using cheap 115gr. target ammo; 3 or 4 failures/ 50 round boxes. The primer was dented by the firing pin, but no "bang". The better ammo I have yet to have a failure. Drop Glock a line, it will hurt nothing to give the Glock boys a chance to respond. If you still want to trash it.........well I'll keep a trash can ready for ya.

Be well JAB,

RF 1

 

[HOLLiS]

Have to agree with Hollis on this one. I've owned and regularly fired my Glock 17 for more years than I'd care to admit. The only problems I have had was in using cheap 115gr. target ammo; 3 or 4 failures/ 50 round boxes. The primer was dented by the firing pin, but no "bang". The better ammo I have yet to have a failure. Drop Glock a line, it will hurt nothing to give the Glock boys a chance to respond. If you still want to trash it.........well I'll keep a trash can ready for ya.

Be well JAB,

RF 1

or, I have a trash can here that can be used. I have a group home for discarded firearms.

 

[Trip_Wire]

Many LE agencies issue the Glock 22 (To include my old agency.) They seem to be happy with their choice. I carry a Glock 27 normally for my personal defense weapon. I only have one other Glock a model 20 (10MM). I don't fire either one all that much. To me it sounds like that Glock of yours is just worn out. BTW: I'd lay the story on Glock and see what they come up with.

 

[Centermass]

The stock pins as far as I know, are peened and not hardened......why this is, I don't know. You wrote you went with hardened ones, and then, titanium. Were the hardened ones RC'd or peened? You stated you've changed the spring every 5000 rds. Was this before or after you started shooting comp or what you've always done? The spring interval recommendations vary. I've seen recommendations anywhere from every 3000 to 8000 is the reason I'm asking.

I'm also curious to know who you got the new barrel from, Glock, Storm Lake? Other?

Was the spring replaced together with the guide rod? Captive? Factory or after market? Non captive? If so, who?

What was the spring rating before you changed it? What is is now?

Have you checked the block for damaged?

I know, questions, questions. It's just that this doesn't happen often, and Glocks are usually bomb proof. I take it your Glock was a third gen?

My experience: My 22c is 3rd gen from 1999. I do not shoot comp, but I've averaged about 2000 rds per year since, changed the GR/SA every 5000 (On my 4th) using an ISMI captive assembly, no trigger mods, loads ranged from 180 to 135. Round count is pretty accurate based upon required F-9 qualification standards (2 a year) and practice in between. Kept it clean and never a problem.

FYI, and for the record, even though most think titanium is the greatest thing since sliced bread in the "Hardness Department", when it comes to its use in frame pins, they are not recommended because they are brittle.

I'd have another look at rethinking the frame pin of choice before tossing it. Just my .02

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

The stock pins as far as I know, are peened and not hardened......why this is, I don't know. You wrote you went with hardened ones, and then, titanium. Were the hardened ones RC'd or peened? You stated you've changed the spring every 5000 rds. Was this before or after you started shooting comp or what you've always done? The spring interval recommendations vary. I've seen recommendations anywhere from every 3000 to 8000 is the reason I'm asking.

Top pin broke twice in the factory configuration in the past prior to mods and competitive shooting. I probably replaced the recoil spring closer to 10-15k rds back then. I started doing at 5k when I started using a metal guid rod and 16# recoil spring, once I started using it for IDPA/USPSA/SCSA. The bottom pin and top pins have broken 3 times in the last 8 months or so, in the mod configuration.
I'm also curious to know who you got the new barrel from, Glock, Storm Lake? Other?

Barrel were replaced with factory up until this last one, I current have a Lone Wolf drop-in. I only use it for lead ball, I have a factory barrel for FMJ.

Was the spring replaced together with the guide rod? Captive? Factory or after market? Non captive? If so, who?

Non captive steel with 16# wolf springs.

What was the spring rating before you changed it? What is is now?

Not sure to be honest

Have you checked the block for damaged?

Block is GTG, small amount of surface wear from cleaning but in tact.
I know, questions, questions. It's just that this doesn't happen often, and Glocks are usually bomb proof. I take it your Glock was a third gen?

Yes third gen, and I agree they are bomb proof. I think this one has just got to a point where things need to be watched closer, replaced sooner. I don't really trust it at this point...

My experience: My 22c is 3rd gen from 1999. I do not shoot comp, but I've averaged about 2000 rds per year since, changed the GR/SA every 5000 (On my 4th) using an ISMI captive assembly, no trigger mods, loads ranged from 180 to 135. Round count is pretty accurate based upon required F-9 qualification standards (2 a year) and practice in between. Kept it clean and never a problem.

FYI, and for the record, even though most think titanium is the greatest thing since sliced bread in the "Hardness Department", when it comes to its use in frame pins, they are not recommended because they are brittle.

I'd have another look at rethinking the frame pin of choice before tossing it. Just my .02

I will probably keep it for a truck gun or maybe a safe queen at this point. I am working a letter to send to Glock, I’ll post it here when I get it finished. I am also going over to my gunsmith next week to have the pin hole checked as 91B stated, I think he might be on to something there.

The excessive round counts are due to an abundance of ammunition (LE buddies hooking me up in the past) and as of recent trying to get to that next level in competitive shooting. I use to put anywhere from 2-3k rounds a month out of it in the first few years I owned it. Now it’s more about 1500-2500 rounds a month depending how many local/regional matches I shoot and how many days a week I practice.

 

[Centermass]

Keep in mind J, for shooting that amount, .40 is an extremely stressful load as it is, as compared to 9mm. It didn't become the standard in LE for no reason. Spring tension (As with most) is as important, if not more so in a Glock, then just about anything else. It can make all the difference in the world when it comes to muzzle flip, recoil dissipation, loading, chambering and finally, energy dissipation as to the frame itself. Yes, they're finicky and oft times, trial and error is necessary before you figure out the right mix if you plan on some mods that will work reliably.

I think between having a smith check it (As 91 suggested) and any help Glock is willing to provide, you'll get your answers. Good luck.