National Guard SF

sgtlew

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Maybe this has been addressed before but I was unable to find a post. I am just curious about what the active side thinks of the 19th and 20th groups. I have heard different comments (mostly positive). As far as I go, I have met a number of national guard (SF) members and find them to be every bit as professional and dedicated as their active counterparts. What is your take?
 

car

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Maybe this has been addressed before but I was unable to find a post. I am just curious about what the active side thinks of the 19th and 20th groups. I have heard different comments (mostly positive). As far as I go, I have met a number of national guard (SF) members and find them to be every bit as professional and dedicated as their active counterparts. What is your take?

I've worked with both. Some good and some bad, although mostly good. You're gonna have both in any organization.

But I got into it with a 19th Grp CPT in Al Kut over some ISWAT support he tried to pull from a mission I had planned - and didn't involve his team. Left a bad taste in my mouth, but, as I said, there are bad ones in every org.
 

surgicalcric

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I think we are just as dedicated if not moreso in some areas to be honest with you. This isnt a weekend a month/2weeks in the summer job. As well we are generally the last to be fielded a new piece of gear and thats only if our SOR is approved and the items requested dont end up going to whatever AD SF guys we are OPCON to.

That being said, there are good and there are bad SF soldiers in both the AD and the NG side of the house. It really depends on the person more than anything else I have found. There isnt a single factor which separates the NG from the AD teams like there was years ago.

I would also venture to say that atleast 50% on my company is prior AD.

Crip
 

varsity

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I think we are just as dedicated if not moreso in some areas to be honest with you. This isnt a weekend a month/2weeks in the summer job. As well we are generally the last to be fielded a new piece of gear and thats only if our SOR is approved and the items requested dont end up going to whatever AF SF guys we are OPCON to.

That being said, there are good and there are bad SF soldiers in both the AD and the NG side of the house. It really depends on the person more than anything else I have found. There isnt a single factor which separates the NG from the AD teams like there was years ago.

I would also venture to say that atleast 50% on my company is prior AD.

Crip

I agree with one exception. The main difference in my opinion is that in some instances, the guard will bring more skill sets to theater. Not in the traditional sense though. You have to look at what guard SF guys are doing in the civ sector and it becomes apparent. The range of different experiences is huge and can really come in handy downrange.
I have been on one set of orders or another for the last 5 years. Give or take. My real job is whoring myself out to the guard. As far as experience goes, guard SF is almost always downrange in one form or another. We have guys attached to active duty, working AST, at school, contracting, or simply deployed. You even have guard run FOB's. So as of right now, there's not much difference. I leave you with this. My last tm sgt. said it best. Granted, he was great at being angry and mean.

"Don't be pissed off because your full time job is my hobby. I only do this shit when there is a war on."

He had a unique perspective. Please don't take that last quote out of perspective. He was only funnin!!;)
 

surgicalcric

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I agree with one exception. The main difference in my opinion is that in some instances, the guard will bring more skill sets to theater. Not in the traditional sense though. You have to look at what guard SF guys are doing in the civ sector and it becomes apparent. The range of different experiences is huge and can really come in handy downrange...

I was going to mention this perspective in my earlier post but got sidetracked and forgot to bring it to light.

We are a pretty diverse bunch who do bring things to the table most, not all, our AD brothers dont. Many times our civilian jobs add to our proficiency in our 18-series MOS and other times we bring something new to the table. For instance my ODA is comprised of the following: aeronautical engineer, construction manager, electronics engineer, investment banker/accountant, firefighter/paramedic, (2) LEO's, and a couple guard bums (guys who go from one deployment to the next with schools between). 7 of the 10 guys on my ODA have multiple deployments to OEF/OIF.

We also have a SOT-A guy assigned to our ODA who is a computer securities engineer for IBM.

Pretty diverse bunch who are all down to earth except for the banker who thinks entirely too much. whomever said you cant be too smart never met my Senior; too analytical that guy is...

Again there are good and there are bad. It cant be divided by AD vs NG. I have run into just as many shit-bags from 7th Group and 3rd Group as I have ever known in the NG. As well, most of the instructors I had in the SFQC could care less where I came from but there were a couple who hated my existence because I was a Nasty Girl, or atleast thats the excuse they used.

Crip
 

Rabid Badger

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Great descriptions of 'The Table'

SF/NG brings a lot of different assets to the table that active don't (already discussed)

My input would be that the last two 'fronts' have brought more to light the necessity of having a well trained and ready National Guard for not-so-much relief of the active duty SF'ers, but as SF ODA augmentees.

Gone are the days of sitting around for 'drill' boozin and tellin war stories.....
 

Olive Drab

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with this optempo, is there any discussion about bringing back 11th and 12th?
 

varsity

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with this optempo, is there any discussion about bringing back 11th and 12th?
I haven't heard anything. I doubt it will happen though. The goal is to keep all the "combat MOS's" in the guard and all support in the reserves. That would mean making 11th and 12th into NG units. I don't foresee it.
 

18C4V

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with this optempo, is there any discussion about bringing back 11th and 12th?

LOL,
They got problems trying to stand up a 4th bn for each of the NG Groups!!!

The problems that I see:

NG SF teams lack access to NET training (FBCB2, MMBJ, Raven B, ASK2) unlike the AD guys. Of course some of the NG SF units are co-located with AD Groups like 5/19th at Ft. Carson so access is not a issue.

NG SF down to the team level does not have access to SIPIR which that's an issue.

NG SF B teams need more training in the technological side of running an OPCEN. It all boils down to having access to NET.

Of course NG SF needs more advanced school slots.....Some of the old timers have told me that if it wasn't the GWOT, we wouldn't have the schools that we gotten. I just assumed that it was normal OML stuff.
 

AWP

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Of course NG SF needs more advanced school slots.....Some of the old timers have told me that if it wasn't the GWOT, we wouldn't have the schools that we gotten. I just assumed that it was normal OML stuff.

I don't know when you hit Group, but I worked the Support side from '93-02. Schools weren't something that we or the ODAs got with a regular basis pre-9/11. It did get a little better about 98/99, but not much and equipment wise we were two generations behind the AD side in commo gear. 90% of our commo equipment were hand-me-downs from AD. School slots beyond basic MOS producing schools were rare. In the Support world we even had to fight to get slots at Ft. Gordon for some of our MOS as the Guard preferred to send guys to a weekend only school...so we lost members for 18 months to a process that should only take 3.

But at least FL had money for the ADA Brigade. :rolleyes:
 

Rabid Badger

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I don't know when you hit Group, but I worked the Support side from '93-02. Schools weren't something that we or the ODAs got with a regular basis pre-9/11. It did get a little better about 98/99, but not much and equipment wise we were two generations behind the AD side in commo gear. 90% of our commo equipment were hand-me-downs from AD. School slots beyond basic MOS producing schools were rare. In the Support world we even had to fight to get slots at Ft. Gordon for some of our MOS as the Guard preferred to send guys to a weekend only school...so we lost members for 18 months to a process that should only take 3.

But at least FL had money for the ADA Brigade. :rolleyes:

Funny thing here:

All the high speed schools usually have open stand-by slots. If you can get permission to drive or fly to Fay and have the guard unit pay for it...sometimes it may be a 'try' and turn around and go home....other times you'll get in and havta call back to the training NCO and let him know.

Sometimes the optempo for AD-SF precludes them from attending (something happens worldwide-rapid unit callout). It's worth a try....
 

AWP

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That was the thing, the Guard wouldn't pay for squat. MOS producing schools only. Now I'm told it is much different, but back then we had jack, shit, and nothing.
 

varsity

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That was the thing, the Guard wouldn't pay for squat. MOS producing schools only. Now I'm told it is much different, but back then we had jack, shit, and nothing.

It is different, There are only a couple of schools we don't get now. And that's just because we are guard. I think it's BS, but it is what it is. By and large though, it's pretty easy to stay busy by being a MANSCOUT.....er guard SF.
 

sgtlew

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It is a shame that it's taken GWOT to get more training. Our state is still lagging behind it seems. Such is the nature of things I guess. Thanks for all you input on the NG SF. Great bunch of guys.
 

hidesite

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Along the same lines as the NG SF folks having additional intangible assets you will see an even larger shocking dichotomy within some of the NG LRS units since a LRS troop is basically an Airborne Infantryman or Communications Soldier by paragraph & line in their unit's MTOE and not the benefactor of the 18 series MOS pipeline of superior MOS training...

REAL examples: You'll have guy(s) who are owners of businesses; professors at major universities; Fire / Paramedic service professional; law enforcement professional to include local PD's and the alphabet groups; former AD Special operations and hard chargers from every branch of service whom have gotten out to get their college education and go back AD with a commission or just want to stay in a "team" environment at the tip of the spear and jump out of airplanes...

And they all take a HUGE bust in rank back down to E-4 just to be in the unit since that is generally the highest ranking slot available. I've seen E-5's and E-6's with a plethora of civilian AND MILITARY experience take the voluntary admin bust and even O's resign their commission to be in a LRSU as a Spec-4. (One went from 1LT to E-3 and was tabbed)

What you end up with is guys whom on paper may be a primary MOS holder of 11B0P/V or 25CP/V slot (With a few other secondary identifiers, bells and whistles and etc...) but bringing far and above more to the table.

Yes, a LRSU isn't USASOC asset, however they foster some of the great intangibles in their troops similar that of their big brother over in green beanie land.

Without great sacrifice, there can be no great reward.
 

DA SWO

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Funny thing here:

All the high speed schools usually have open stand-by slots. If you can get permission to drive or fly to Fay and have the guard unit pay for it...sometimes it may be a 'try' and turn around and go home....other times you'll get in and havta call back to the training NCO and let him know.

...

I put a couple of guys into jump school this way. I'd just cut AT orders, and send their merry butts to GA for a month.
 
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