National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (and now ICE)

[R.Caerbannog]

I happen to know a little about information warfare and even though I do see how Social Media is being weaponized and used to further wedge Americans into two camps; I don’t see how you could compare this to how the British oppressed the Colonists. I mean that’s like trying to compare the Capital storming to Pearl Harbor. Not even same ballpark.

I will agree that there is almost certainly information warfare going on but there are more than just one party or person at the table. And so far people have lost businesses to riots and losing money because of COVID so I don’t see that as an organized Government deep state. I could get woke and try to figure out which group is doing what, but I’ll just wait until the real oppression sets in

Dude, Congress just sent your tax money (on a credit card) to Pakistan for 'gender studies'. Same with a bunch of other countries. Taxation without representation was kind of a big deal for the founding fathers.

Also, GOV edicts killed those small businesses. Covid and the fear it generated was the excuse used to bring them to their knees.

 

[Devildoc]

We get taxation with representation with an asterisk. We do via voting, but as we know it's binary, and although we vote we get no say in anything regarding taxation.

Bringing this back to cops, the actions of the capitol police sure didn't do anything to ensure trust, but based on the video, it looks like many of the others exercised enormous restraint on the grounds based on the way some of those morons were acting.

 

[frostyred]

We get taxation with representation with an asterisk. We do via voting, but as we know it's binary, and although we vote we get no say in anything regarding taxation.

Bringing this back to cops, the actions of the capitol police sure didn't do anything to ensure trust, but based on the video, it looks like many of the others exercised enormous restraint on the grounds based on the way some of those morons were acting.

You mean the police exercised restraint? I'd agree, especially because I think the assumption was that far more protestors were armed than were arrested for carrying.

 

[Devildoc]

You mean the police exercised restraint? I'd agree, especially because I think the assumption was that far more protestors were armed than were arrested for carrying.

Yeah, after the crowds were booted from the capitol and everyone was outside, some of the video showed some up-close-and-personal jackasses getting into the cops' grills, and the LEOs weren't engaging, and in my opinion, showed pretty good restraint.

I was a state-certified LEO once (I had to be to be a medic on a LE SWAT team), but never a 'real' cop. With my desire to rapidly pepper spray, tase, or asp some knees anyone who annoys me, I would not have made a good street cop: I would have escalated things quickly with booger-eaters. If I was at the capitol last night, I know that I would not have the same restraint.

 

[frostyred]

Yeah, after the crowds were booted from the capitol and everyone was outside, some of the video showed some up-close-and-personal jackasses getting into the cops' grills, and the LEOs weren't engaging, and in my opinion, showed pretty good restraint.

I was a state-certified LEO once (I had to be to be a medic on a LE SWAT team), but never a 'real' cop. With my desire to rapidly pepper spray, tase, or asp some knees anyone who annoys me, I would not have made a good street cop: I would have escalated things quickly with booger-eaters. If I was at the capitol last night, I know that I would not have the same restraint.

Yeah. MPD has its problems, for sure, but throughout the protests all this year, I think they've generally showed a decent amount of restraint. I went and biked around in May, keeping my distance and observing, and it was really, really intriguing to see how it was all going.

 

[RetPara]

Video of shooting. IMO there is going to be a Capitol PD LEO up on charges or there will be one hell of a lawsuit over this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1347056697899163648

 

[ThunderHorse]

Video of shooting. IMO there is going to be a Capitol PD LEO up on charges or there will be one hell of a lawsuit over this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1347056697899163648

Yeah, he better be going away, for a very long time.

 

[Brill]

Yeah, he better be going away, for a very long time.

One round fired is curious. I’m sure there was very conflicted inner dialogue.

 

[DA SWO]

Video of shooting. IMO there is going to be a Capitol PD LEO up on charges or there will be one hell of a lawsuit over this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1347056697899163648

New admin will push it under the rug.

 

[BloodStripe]

 

[JedisonsDad]

I think it’s going to be a tough defense, considering there were so many armed officers directly behind her, and clearly they didn’t see a need to shoot despite being on the same side of the door as the “threat”

 

[AWP]

I think we're overlooking something: did the officer act within the constraints of his department's policies? The guy who kneeled on George Foreman or whoever's neck in MN was following dept. procedure.

I was kind of incensed at the shooting, but would like to know if the officer was within the law. Not common sense, not our bias, not some Twitter videos, not our own LEO/ Mil background...but the law as it applies to this case.

 

[BloodStripe]

I think we're overlooking something: did the officer act within the constraints of his department's policies? The guy who kneeled on George Foreman or whoever's neck in MN was following dept. procedure.

I was kind of incensed at the shooting, but would like to know if the officer was within the law. Not common sense, not our bias, not some Twitter videos, not our own LEO/ Mil background...but the law as it applies to this case.

Have you ever been taught to lunge towards someone you were shooting? The guy took aim for about 5 seconds and then lunged forward.

 

[RackMaster]

Have you ever been taught to lunge towards someone you were shooting? The guy took aim for about 5 seconds and then lunged forward.

Fell maybe?

 

[Kraut783]

IMHO, inexperienced and stressed....was pointing the pistol at the "perceived" threat...the barricaded doors themselves. When the victim starting over the barricade, freaked and shot.

but, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[BloodStripe]

I mean weapon safety rule number two is never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.

 

[Kraut783]

I think we're overlooking something: did the officer act within the constraints of his department's policies? The guy who kneeled on George Foreman or whoever's neck in MN was following dept. procedure.

I was kind of incensed at the shooting, but would like to know if the officer was within the law. Not common sense, not our bias, not some Twitter videos, not our own LEO/ Mil background...but the law as it applies to this case.

From looking at the video....I can't see where using deadly force would be warranted. Physical force, or less lethal, yep.

Unless there was a pistol/knife/club in her hand that we didn't see and "disappeared" after she fell. I have only seen that one vid and can't tell.

EDIT: I would be curious what ROE's USCP might have.

 

[Kraut783]

I mean weapon safety rule number two is never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.

heh, apparently true in this situation....

 

[Board and Seize]

Here's an interesting article that examines riots as a group coordination problem.

It would be pretty nice if we could generally strip away the 'moral' (tribal) valence from our discussions of these kinds of things so that we can actually examine the underlying processes, then improve our systems (now I'm sounding naive!).

 

[Locksteady]

Here's an interesting article that examines riots as a group coordination problem.

It would be pretty nice if we could generally strip away the 'moral' (tribal) valence from our discussions of these kinds of things so that we can actually examine the underlying processes, then improve our systems (now I'm sounding naive!).

What a nice read. I love how s/he described to a tee the rioting patterns that I have personnally witnessed occurring between individual people (testing with minor acts of carnage) and other onlookers (following suit after seeing at least one other person do it first) during demonstrations.

This line summed up the article for me: "No civic order can be breached until the ambitious few have broken a few windows."