National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (and now ICE)

[Blizzard]

His legal status to carry was immediately void once he was in the commission of a felony crime (obstruction and violent resist). Now instead of just the normal "real" crimes apparently, they would all be considered for upgrade to something like possession of a firearm during commission of a felony. This is a federal charge that can be attached under 18 USC 924(c) .

If his actions resulted in his conviction of a felony, which would be unlikely in Hennepin County, then his permit to carry would be revoked. But only after conviction.

 

[Florida173]

If his actions resulted in his conviction of a felony, which would be unlikely in Hennepin County, then his permit to carry would be revoked. But only after conviction.

Ok.. how about being a bit more clear. His permit provides no legal protection for firearm possession during the felony. it simply becomes irrelevant for criminal liability purposes.

 

[amlove21]

*sigh*

Your very first point in your post of the video was that he was carrying illegally. Which he was not.

It would only be "illegal", graduations of severity or not, if:
1. He was asked to show his permit by a police officer (I won't even get into the semanticsof MN officer vs. federal agent). I doubt he was asked to do so during this interaction, unless they were asking him to show his permit between blows.

2. He fails to produce a valid permit to carry

3. After failing to display a valid permit, the officer issues a citation

4. He then fails to go to prosecutor or court with evidence that he had a valid permit, which would result in dismissal of a citation; ie no violation.

But, if all 4 things above, happen, then yes, he would be guilty of a petty misdemeanor (thus, the reason for the earlier "meh").

Does that make you happy?

Nothing about this makes me happy. External things cannot make you happy; your response and opinions about those external things do.

First bolded; claim. Second bolded; exactly the scenario that proves that his actions, the claim, is explicitly illegal. If he wasn't super busy speeding to his untimely death, upon detention, the process you laid out would have happened, with the exception of point 4, which is your assumption about how the hypothetical would play out. It's also equally as possible that the judge hammers him with @Florida173 USC, takes his weapon, and voids his CCW. This post/argument proves too much; you said it yourself, it was illegal and would be a crime, you just don't think the crime matters. I accept that, I just disagree because I try and reject relativism in these cases.

Break// not at you @Blizzard I am just lasy and don't want to split the post.

Anyway, all this serves to highlight the larger issue; for the tenth time, the fact pattern won't matter, only scrambling to the high ground of the narrative to buttress a priori assumptions.

 

[Box]

I'm just going to throw this out there - but in the multiverse - a concealed carry permit is a red herring of sorts.

If my neighbor buys a motorcycle and lets me take for a spin around the neighborhood and I obey all appropriate rules of the road - but forgot to take my wallet with me, have I broken the law?

What if I don't even have a motorcycle endorsement for my license? Does it even matter at that point that I don't have my wallet?
...it's still just harmless lap around the block, in a gated community, while obeying all of the appropriate traffic laws.

What if I do this while I am carrying my pistol...
...while still obeying all of the appropriate traffic laws.

What difference, at this point, does it make?
I obeyed they laws - even the petty ones - and didn't get pulled over.

BUT

What if I rip through the neighborhood reaching speeds of 40-50-60 MPH while showing how good I can ride a wheelie?
What if I run over a dog?
What if I intentionally leave the neighborhood, and get rear-ended by a guy that didn't see the red light because he was texting?
...and the guy that rear-ends me has a case of road rage?
...and he has his license
...and he has his CCW permit
...but he's an asshole prone to bouts of road rage
...and the cops get there just as he brandishes his firearm
...and the guy gets shot 10 times by law enforcement

Does "the card" ever REALLY make one bit of meaningful difference?
...or can it just be a really good example of catastrophically bad life choices ??

Have I - at this point - broken any "real" laws ??
...can we start rioting yet?

Sometimes staying home really does save lives !!

 

[amlove21]

The other funny wrinkle here? I THINK CCW PERMITS AND GUN REGISTRIES AND LISTS ARE ALL INFRINGEMENTS. I always have.

I don't need a class, or a card, or ID to carry a weapon. Period. The 2nd is only 27 words long and super clear. You have a God-given right to protect yourself ("life"), and you have a formalized immunity from the govenrment telling you that you can't own and possess firearms (the 2nd).

This entire conversation is so crazy to debate on if he was following the correct level of infringements thanks to anti-gun lobbyists (mainly from the left).

In an alternate universe we don't have to have the conversation because the dude is an American carrying a gun. Perfectly justified.

 

[The Quartermaster]

DHS is going after businesses who are committing fraud. But this fellow who just go a job at the restaurant had a lot to say, I feel for the dude because he may be out of work, but this is what you voted for. Rule of law. Going after businesses that commit fraud. There was a smaller restaurant chain in AZ that was rolled up for human trafficking. Like...

Colt's BBQ's in Cottonwood, Prescott Valley, and Prescott. And their employees were treated like garbage.

While it stunk that the best BBQ joints in the county were taken out, after we all found out why the outrage with us locals went from WTF to SMH and agreeing that it had to be done.

 

[Blizzard]

I'm just going to throw this out there - but in the multiverse - a concealed carry permit is a red herring of sorts.

If my neighbor buys a motorcycle and lets me take for a spin around the neighborhood and I obey all appropriate rules of the road - but forgot to take my wallet with me, have I broken the law?

What if I don't even have a motorcycle endorsement for my license? Does it even matter at that point that I don't have my wallet?
...it's still just harmless lap around the block, in a gated community, while obeying all of the appropriate traffic laws.

What if I do this while I am carrying my pistol...
...while still obeying all of the appropriate traffic laws.

What difference, at this point, does it make?
I obeyed they laws - even the petty ones - and didn't get pulled over.

BUT

What if I rip through the neighborhood reaching speeds of 40-50-60 MPH while showing how good I can ride a wheelie?
What if I run over a dog?
What if I intentionally leave the neighborhood, and get rear-ended by a guy that didn't see the red light because he was texting?
...and the guy that rear-ends me has a case of road rage?
...and he has his license
...and he has his CCW permit
...but he's an asshole prone to bouts of road rage
...and the cops get there just as he brandishes his firearm
...and the guy gets shot 10 times by law enforcement

Does "the card" ever REALLY make one bit of meaningful difference?
...or can it just be a really good example of catastrophically bad life choices ??

Have I - at this point - broken any "real" laws ??
...can we start rioting yet?

Sometimes staying home really does save lives !!

"All these if, if, if's... and if my mom had balls, she'd be my father."

I have nothing really of value to add here, I just wanted to make reference to one of my favorite new quotes.

 

[Blizzard]

Nothing about this makes me happy. External things cannot make you happy; your response and opinions about those external things do.

First bolded; claim. Second bolded; exactly the scenario that proves that his actions, the claim, is explicitly illegal. If he wasn't super busy speeding to his untimely death, upon detention, the process you laid out would have happened, with the exception of point 4, which is your assumption about how the hypothetical would play out. It's also equally as possible that the judge hammers him with @Florida173 USC, takes his weapon, and voids his CCW. This post/argument proves too much; you said it yourself, it was illegal and would be a crime, you just don't think the crime matters. I accept that, I just disagree because I try and reject relativism in these cases.

Break// not at you @Blizzard I am just lasy and don't want to split the post.

Anyway, all this serves to highlight the larger issue; for the tenth time, the fact pattern won't matter, only scrambling to the high ground of the narrative to buttress a priori assumptions.

If he had his permit in his pocket does it in any way change or influence why he was shot? No.

Whether his permit was in his pocket or not is completely irrelevant to the entire situation, unless someone is simply trying to further villainize the guy by making it sound like this was something more than it is. There are plenty of other angles to hammer the guy on, this just isn't one of them.

As you said in your previous post, the dude shouldn't even need one in the first. Constitutional carry should be the rule of the land.