National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (and now ICE)

[Ooh-Rah]

As to why it’s happening… Minnesota officials have spent months demonizing LEO, calling for violence, defunded the police and decimated local authorities, and then paid agitators have been gaslit into believing they’re fighting actual Nazis and sacrificing themselves using suicide by cop because they’ve been led to believe they’re not going to suffer consequences, all funded and supported by dark money NGOs and a complicit mainstream news media.

As a person who lives here, not sure if I agree with you. In the past year Police support is on upswing, the new police chief in Minneapolis has done a great job of mending fences.

As far as paid agitators, I’m 100% convinced that happened during George Floyd, not as sure during this current situation.

 

[Topkick]

There are videos with before (agitation, pushing fellow protestors into agents, initial contact with agents) and showing after (not a lot to glean).

I'm going to go ahead and assume LEOs are not out there terrorizing innocent citizens for now.

 

[TLDR20]

I'm going to go ahead and assume LEOs are not out there terrorizing innocent citizens for now.

The probably best video of the “context.”

https://www.reddit.com/r/Leakednews/s/tevvtg0t70

 

[TLDR20]

Of all the talk of false news. This is literally the most false. We have eyes, we can see video evidence of him not brandishing a firearm.

 

[amlove21]

As a person who lives here, not sure if I agree with you. In the past year Police support is on upswing, the new police chief in Minneapolis has done a great job of mending fences.

As far as paid agitators, I’m 100% convinced that happened during George Floyd, not as sure during this current situation.

I was speaking specifically about Frey and Walz and their actions and governance. Popular opinion or feelings about policing are one thing, a systematic dismantling of the departments from the governmental level are another.

Was that the same police chief that made the face when Frey said he was going to use them to fight and resist ICE?

 

[Scubadew]

People run to the internet to see what other people think without processing information themselves and forming an opinion.

Every video I've seen tells my brain that is a horrifically bad shoot.

 

[amlove21]

Very clear frame by frame just dropped of Pretti clearly reaching for his holster, and that’s when the shoot happens.

Gun call, seemed assailant clearly reaches for where the gun was, shoot happens. I can’t find the video without ridiculous working or takes over it but it exists.

Don’t have an opinion on this one yet, but reaching for your holster is pretty clear intent to use the tool that’s there.

 

[Marauder06]

Tonight I’ve received multiple “report post” alerts, along with a message letting me know how poorly I’m doing as a moderator.

I’m one person, and the forum owner entrusted me to keep some order here. That’s what I’m trying to do.

I have a great deal of respect for this community; especially those of you with Green Tags. It’s an honor to be a member here, much less serve in a staff role.

That’s why it’s disappointing to see grown men, officers and enlisted alike, resort to personal attacks, insults and passive-aggressive comments.

Watching former Staff-Admins contributing to this makes it all the more discouraging.

Over politics.

Tearing ourselves apart.

Over politics.

Sleep well, America.

It was never "over politics." It was, and is, about how we treat each other, and what we're willing to tolerate.

When you have a member that regularly lashes out at others--and has done so for years--when he treats people with contempt, calls them names, insults them... what do you expect us to do? Nothing? We tried doing nothing before and it didn't work. We tried gentle engagement, and it didn't work. We tried all kind of measures and sanctions. And we tried forgiveness, and that didn't work either. So what, exactly, is left?

I'm not one of the people who messaged you about this most recent dustup, nor did I report any posts, although some of them were clearly out of line and should have been reported. Nor do I think you're doing poorly as a moderator. To the contrary, I've told you several times, both publicly and in private, that I think you do a good job at a hard task.

But brother, if you're going to maintain order here... then maintain order. There is one person here causing the disorder. It is the same one that ALWAYS causes the kinds of problems that prompt you to make posts like this one. He swoops in, unwelcome and uninvited, and sends rounds downrange, and it seems that it's only after the counterfire comes his way that anything is said and done, and in a "both sides" way when there is clearly only one instigator.

There are an infinite number of places I can go on the Internet to read profanity-riddled tirades and politically-oriented personal attacks. It would be nice if this were not one of them.

 

[Topkick]

the new police chief in Minneapolis has done a great job of mending fences.

I kinda like that guy. I've heard him clarify his position more than once. Today, i heard him remind citizens to stay out of the way and let LE do their job. Its clearly a nod supportive of law enforcement while the mayor is denegrating ICE.

 

[Crusader74]

I'm looking in the window from across the pond. Who has primacy in these situations? Are they (ICE) obliged to inform local LE that they're operating in their AO's? Should local LE escort them to have legitimacy ? Do they?

 

[TLDR20]

https://www.reddit.com/r/law/s/Lq740ffiJS

 

[SOSTCRNA]

As a person who lives here, not sure if I agree with you. In the past year Police support is on upswing, the new police chief in Minneapolis has done a great job of mending fences.

As far as paid agitators, I’m 100% convinced that happened during George Floyd, not as sure during this current situation.

Why do you think there aren’t paid agitators involved in this? Honest question.

 

[Marauder06]

There are videos with before (agitation, pushing fellow protestors into agents, initial contact with agents) and showing after (not a lot to glean).

As to why it’s happening… Minnesota officials have spent months demonizing LEO, calling for violence, defunded the police and decimated local authorities, and then paid agitators have been gaslit into believing they’re fighting actual Nazis and sacrificing themselves using suicide by cop because they’ve been led to believe they’re not going to suffer consequences, all funded and supported by dark money NGOs and a complicit mainstream news media.

Is this one of the ones you were talking about? Hard to tell everything, but definitely a different perspective.

53K views · 1.1K reactions | A new angle of the shooting gives important context. You can clearly see the suspect was actively assaulting a female before officers laid hands on him and at the time of the first shot he was managing to fight his way to his feet. | Red White and True News

 

[amlove21]

I'm looking in the window from across the pond. Who has primacy in these situations? Are they (ICE) obliged to inform local LE that they're operating in their AO's? Should local LE escort them to have legitimacy ? Do they?

It wasn’t ICE, it was CPB on this one. Local LE is supposed to (constitutionally, federal supremacy article) support them. Communication, protection, general enforcement.

They are doing the opposite. Contrast Florida and Texas- deportations and ICE/CBP arrests/actions by multiple factors more. None of this stuff happening there. Or Louisiana.

The difference here is state cooperation and the aforementioned money funding this little color revolution so the democrats don’t lose their voting base and money laundering operation.

 

[amlove21]

Is this one of the ones you were talking about? Hard to tell everything, but definitely a different perspective.

53K views · 1.1K reactions | A new angle of the shooting gives important context. You can clearly see the suspect was actively assaulting a female before officers laid hands on him and at the time of the first shot he was managing to fight his way to his feet. | Red White and True News

No I saw that one earlier… I’ll find it and just out a disclaimer about the posters own take not being my own. Won’t matter to the smooth brains but I’ll try.

 

[Blizzard]

As a person who lives here, not sure if I agree with you. In the past year Police support is on upswing, the new police chief in Minneapolis has done a great job of mending fences.

Interesting. You and I see this very differently.

The rhetoric that continues to be spewed by the DFL, especially from Walz and Frey, along with their failure to act and uphold the rule of law, makes them extremely culpable in everything that's taking place. The stand-down orders are extremely damning.

Also, O'Hara (MPD Chief) is spineless cuck. Here's some facts about the Minneapolis PD -- they're simply jaw-dropping:

• MPD is so gutted they cannot even respond to basic calls for help. If they were a military unit, they'd probably have been designated combat ineffective a couple years ago.
• The city has made absolutely no headway in meeting court ordered staffing levels from a few years ago, but no one seems to care because there's seemingly no consequence associated with ignoring the order. The mandate is a ratio based on population but minimum staffing level is ~730 sworn officers, give or a take a few. MPD currently has ~580 sworn officers. In early 2020, the department had over 900 sworn officers!
• Morale in the department is already through the floor and continues to decline. Many shifts are operating between 8 to 12 persons under daily minimums.
• Last Saturday, Jan 17, 2nd Precinct had only 1 cop show up for the day shift! They don't even patrol Dinkytown at all anymore, the short-staffed U of M PD has been left to try and pick up those patrols.
• On Jan 15, 50+ overtime shifts were posted as available for the 5th Precinct. As of earlier this week, no one has signed up for any of them (normally, about half would be filled).
• Reports say ~100 officers have applied for leave under the state's new leave program.
• Auto thefts are skyrocketing again.
• Mind you, all this despite extra patrol assistance from Hennepin County Sheriffs Office and the State Patrol.

I could go on and we could cite all kinds of non-sense spewed by O'Hara, but hopefully I've made my point.

 

[Topkick]

specifically Walz and Frey, along with their failure to act and uphold the rule of law, makes them extremely culpable in everything that's taking place.

This is clear, IMHO. The nation is watching.

 

[Cookie_]

Very clear frame by frame just dropped of Pretti clearly reaching for his holster, and that’s when the shoot happens.

Gun call, seemed assailant clearly reaches for where the gun was, shoot happens. I can’t find the video without ridiculous working or takes over it but it exists.

Don’t have an opinion on this one yet, but reaching for your holster is pretty clear intent to use the tool that’s there.

Is this one of the ones you were talking about? Hard to tell everything, but definitely a different perspective.

53K views · 1.1K reactions | A new angle of the shooting gives important context. You can clearly see the suspect was actively assaulting a female before officers laid hands on him and at the time of the first shot he was managing to fight his way to his feet. | Red White and True News

This is the best angle of the video I've been able to find.

There's no "assaulting a female". The woman in brown is shoved by an agent and the guy catches her. He then steps in front of the agent when the woman in gray is shoved to the ground, before he gets sprayed and shoved on top of her.

Looks like he's propped up on his elbows with both hands under his chest when the officer in gray takes his pistol away.

I'm willing to see whatever else comes out, but so far the narrative of "man waiving gun at agents" doesn't hold up.

 

[Blizzard]

I've seen a number of pretty amazing outlier statements from both sides, some from those in a more official capacity, as to what may've happened during today's shooting. I'm not going to weigh in until I see more evidence to help build a more conclusive viewpoint.

I will ask this though: If local law enforcement works hand in glove with ICE in terms of helping with crowd control, upholding public order, etc do either of the shootings from the past couple weeks take place?

No matter what side of the argument you're on, we can probably all agree that 2 killed in two weeks is not a good optic by any measure.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Interesting. You and I see this very differently.

The rhetoric that continues to be spewed by the DFL, especially from Walz and Frey, along with their failure to act and uphold the rule of law, makes them extremely culpable in everything that's taking place. The stand-down orders are extremely damning.

Also, O'Hara (MPD Chief) is spineless cuck. Here's some facts about the Minneapolis PD -- they're simply jaw-dropping:

• MPD is so gutted they cannot even respond to basic calls for help. If they were a military unit, they'd probably have been designated combat ineffective a couple years ago.
• The city has made absolutely no headway in meeting court ordered staffing levels from a few years ago, but no one seems to care because there's seemingly no consequence associated with ignoring the order. The mandate is a ratio based on population but minimum staffing level is ~730 sworn officers, give or a take a few. MPD currently has ~580 sworn officers. In early 2020, the department had over 900 sworn officers!
• Morale in the department is already through the floor and continues to decline. Many shifts are operating between 8 to 12 persons under daily minimums.
• Last Saturday, Jan 17, 2nd Precinct had only 1 cop show up for the day shift! They don't even patrol Dinkytown at all anymore, the short-staffed U of M PD has been left to try and pick up those patrols.
• On Jan 15, 50+ overtime shifts were posted as available for the 5th Precinct. As of earlier this week, no one has signed up for any of them (normally, about half would be filled).
• Reports say ~100 officers have applied for leave under the state's new leave program.
• Auto thefts are skyrocketing again.
• Mind you, all this despite extra patrol assistance from Hennepin County Sheriffs Office and the State Patrol.

I could go on and we could cite all kinds of non-sense spewed by O'Hara, but hopefully I've made my point.

Just the bolded part, Maricopa County Sheriff's have been wasting millions per year to achieve a standard of the federally appointed monitor, who is a Mormon judge, I have no idea what his faith has to do with it, but if my wife brings it up there's a reason. They have been at 99% of requirements for many years, the extra 1% is literally impossible to achieve. We're at the point where the county will be engaging the Congressional delegation to support impeachment, I'm serious. So how in the world do you just ignore a court order?