National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (and now ICE)

Just the bolded part, Maricopa County Sheriff's have been wasting millions per year to achieve a standard of the federally appointed monitor, who is a Mormon judge, I have no idea what his faith has to do with it, but if my wife brings it up there's a reason. They have been at 99% of requirements for many years, the extra 1% is literally impossible to achieve. We're at the point where the county will be engaging the Congressional delegation to support impeachment, I'm serious. So how in the world do you just ignore a court order?
Right?

I wish I had an answer. It's mind-boggling. It's like no one (media, officials, no one) talks about it, so it's like it never happened. Further evidence as to how messed up Minnesota is right now.

BTW, here's a link to a local MN story on the topic:
Minnesota Supreme Court orders Minneapolis to hire more cops as city down more than 200 officers from 2 years ago
 
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This is the best angle of the video I've been able to find.

There's no "assaulting a female". The woman in brown is shoved by an agent and the guy catches her. He then steps in front of the agent when the woman in gray is shoved to the ground, before he gets sprayed and shoved on top of her.

Looks like he's propped up on his elbows with both hands under his chest when the officer in gray takes his pistol away.

I'm willing to see whatever else comes out, but so far the narrative of "man waiving gun at agents" doesn't hold up.
Where did the ‘assaulting a female’ come in to play? I might have missed it.


Ok people For the LOVE OF ROBIN OLDS AND CHESTY PULLER.

Forget who posted it. Just watch the video. The section I’m talking about is 0:16-0:28. Agent bro in the left clears weapon. You hear a shot (it’s a Sig 320… what happens when we find out it discharged negligently while the agent took it breaking the first shot…), the crowd clears, Pretti puts right hand to holster/lower back.

That fact pattern is tragic, chaotic, and unclear. The video is what the video is. ETA - @cookie no one of any seriousness is claiming the ‘walking up waving a gun’ narrative. Thats just not true, everyone here sees through that.
 
Where did the ‘assaulting a female’ come in to play? I might have missed it.


Ok people For the LOVE OF ROBIN OLDS AND CHESTY PULLER.

Forget who posted it. Just watch the video. The section I’m talking about is 0:16-0:28. Agent bro in the left clears weapon. You hear a shot (it’s a Sig 320… what happens when we find out it discharged negligently while the agent took it breaking the first shot…), the crowd clears, Pretti puts right hand to holster/lower back.

That fact pattern is tragic, chaotic, and unclear. The video is what the video is.

that was the take of the person who made the video I posted a little earlier
 
that was the take of the person who made the video I posted a little earlier
The reaching for the holster or the sig?

Know what the crappy thing is? Looking at this video, and carrying concealed 99.99% of my life- know what I would do if I was in a hands on fight? I’d feel to see if my weapon was still in the holster. Doesn’t mean I am going to use it. Know when that .01% happens, when I decide not to carry somewhere? It’s because I’ve decided that if I carry there’s a good chance I’m going to use it, and I decide not to go there. Because I understand that just because I have a right, the responsibility and outcomes of that right rest with me personally.

That context and nuance won’t happen. Everyone’s already decided on this one.
 
Where did the ‘assaulting a female’ come in to play? I might have missed it.

It was the framing in the video Mara shared.

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Ok people For the LOVE OF ROBIN OLDS AND CHESTY PULLER.

Forget who posted it. Just watch the video. The section I’m talking about is 0:16-0:28. Agent bro in the left clears weapon. You hear a shot (it’s a Sig 320… what happens when we find out it discharged negligently while the agent took it breaking the first shot…), the crowd clears, Pretti puts right hand to holster/lower back.

That fact pattern is tragic, chaotic, and unclear. The video is what the video is.


There have been some comments suggesting that the agent who pull the pistol off of him may have ND'd, which seems to be the most likely thing right now.

ETA - @cookie no one of any seriousness is claiming the ‘walking up waving a gun’ narrative. Thats just not true, everyone here sees through that.

For sure, I don't think anyone here has said that yet. I was just stating that broadly because it's what the Government is stating so far.

 
The reaching for the holster or the sig?

Know what the crappy thing is? Looking at this video, and carrying concealed 99.99% of my life- know what I would do if I was in a hands on fight? I’d feel to see if my weapon was still in the holster. Doesn’t mean I am going to use it. Know when that .01% happens, when I decide not to carry somewhere? It’s because I’ve decided that if I carry there’s a good chance I’m going to use it, and I decide not to go there. Because I understand that just because I have a right, the responsibility and outcomes of that right rest with me personally.

That context and nuance won’t happen. Everyone’s already decided on this one.
To dovetail a bit on the carry aspect slightly...

I find it humorous and telling of the people who attempt to make a point of calling out the fact the guy not only had his pistol, but two magazines as well. Really?! No shit. That's pretty common.

I'd carry 2 additional magazines 100% of the time if it were practical, but it's not always. Nonetheless, anyone who thinks this is some kind of major point, clearly knows nothing about personal protection and has never carried a pistol. They've basically told me it's time to stop listening to anything they have to say on the topic.

BTW, how about the ICE agent that had the end of his finger bitten off by a mostly peaceful protester today? Bro, what are you doing putting you fingers in someone's mouth?! C'mon.
 
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BTW, how about the ICE agent that had the end of his finger bitten off by a mostly peaceful protester today? Bro, what are you doing putting you fingers in someone's mouth?! C'mon.
I love this just because it’s the microcosm I wish had happened first.

It would have been so much cleaner to start st the finger, then say ‘well why was he in front of the car’, then ‘well why were they at the protests’, then ‘well if ice wasn’t there agitating all these people then a finger would still be intact, and Renee Good would be alive, and so would Pretti, and we could have avoided this whole thing by allowing Minnesota to continue their regional Marxist revolution and people in NC wouldn’t be crying about a nationwide problem.

It’s just cleaner.
 
It was the framing in the video Mara shared.

View attachment 49196




There have been some comments suggesting that the agent who pull the pistol off of him may have ND'd, which seems to be the most likely thing right now.



For sure, I don't think anyone here has said that yet. I was just stating that broadly because it's what the Government is stating so far.


OSINTDefender is pretty much anti American at this point. And she didn't lie, he was armed and approached them. Was she accurate in her description? Wtf knows, it was a statement prepared for her. What I know is that I don't go out seeking to confront Federal LEOs while armed on my weekend. I also don't go seeking out to confront Federal LEOs on my weekends either.

Let's say there was an Accidental Discharge in the process of numpty number 1 today being disarmed. Which then led to 5 more shots? That's not negligent, looks bad of course, but that's not negligent conduct.

This is not the act of a "mostly peaceful" protestor. Peaceful protestors have their sign and they stay in their permitted spots. Sucks that this guy put those agents in this position.

Anyways, stay vigilant, and mind your own business. The place to protest is outside a government office, not at a raid. Back to wondering why Netflix only paid Honnold 600k.
 
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Aside from the first horrible decision of engaging ICE while carrying, looks like he only reaches for his holster after being shot.

Also, other videos of the incident show another agitator getting arrested while yelling "you're going to have to kill me" several times about 30 feet away from the shooting.

Agent who shot could have, should have, clearly saw the agent in gray jacket pull the gun from the subjects back. From that angle alone looks bad.
 
It looks like your video link is gone, but here is similar showing what looks to be the shooting agent watching and waiting for the guy in the grey to remove the gun from the back holster of the prone man before then drawing and shooting the downed guy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/law/s/aLPqd51m5A
Mods are very busy tonight on Reddit! Let's hope this link holds better.

It shows the same as the bolded above, along with the man's hands not appearing to be anywhere near his holster (planted on the ground in front of him maybe?) when his gun is being taken.

https://packaged-media.redd.it/fixp...00&s=9fdf57da55a2543e2ef20f4c06f7cf57e15043e0
 
Aside from the first horrible decision of engaging ICE while carrying, looks like he only reaches for his holster after being shot.

Also, other videos of the incident show another agitator getting arrested while yelling "you're going to have to kill me" several times about 30 feet away from the shooting.

Agent who shot could have, should have, clearly saw the agent in gray jacket pull the gun from the subjects back. From that angle alone looks bad.
It’s audible in the video; first shot is (I believe at this point) the Sig officer in grey takes. You can pretty clearly hear the string of shots from agents after the right hand touches backside, Pretti reacts.

This entire thing we are debating happened in less than .75 seconds.
 
This revelation/uncovering from Cam Higby should change the entire narrative. It won’t.

If this is true, then there are coordinated, paid groups of insurrectionists collaborating on a plan to disrupt federal agents carrying out legal enforcement. The groups- led by Tim Walz’s inner circle- are actively subverting the United States government. And people are dying because of their actions.

But, again, won’t matter. Both sides are already entrenched and every conversation we are having is fake and stupid.

Anyway here’s the video.

 
It was never "over politics." It was, and is, about how we treat each other, and what we're willing to tolerate.

When you have a member that regularly lashes out at others--and has done so for years--when he treats people with contempt, calls them names, insults them... what do you expect us to do? Nothing? We tried doing nothing before and it didn't work. We tried gentle engagement, and it didn't work. We tried all kind of measures and sanctions. And we tried forgiveness, and that didn't work either. So what, exactly, is left?

I'm not one of the people who messaged you about this most recent dustup, nor did I report any posts, although some of them were clearly out of line and should have been reported. Nor do I think you're doing poorly as a moderator. To the contrary, I've told you several times, both publicly and in private, that I think you do a good job at a hard task.

But brother, if you're going to maintain order here... then maintain order. There is one person here causing the disorder. It is the same one that ALWAYS causes the kinds of problems that prompt you to make posts like this one. He swoops in, unwelcome and uninvited, and sends rounds downrange, and it seems that it's only after the counterfire comes his way that anything is said and done, and in a "both sides" way when there is clearly only one instigator.

There are an infinite number of places I can go on the Internet to read profanity-riddled tirades and politically-oriented personal attacks. It would be nice if this were not one of them.
I'm glad to know that it's more than me that's been noticing this, it's like we're his political punching bags but I've been told that I cannot call him out on it. I had to ask two separate persons in private on here to make sure that I wasn't being biased with my assessment of him to be fair and giving the benefit of the doubt.

And you are right, I don't need this place to be like reddit, Facebook, YouTube, a r f c o m, or Instagram, either.
 
This revelation/uncovering from Cam Higby should change the entire narrative. It won’t.

If this is true, then there are coordinated, paid groups of insurrectionists collaborating on a plan to disrupt federal agents carrying out legal enforcement. The groups- led by Tim Walz’s inner circle- are actively subverting the United States government. And people are dying because of their actions.

But, again, won’t matter. Both sides are already entrenched and every conversation we are having is fake and stupid.

Anyway here’s the video.


Once again people are leaking attack plans on Signal...
 
This revelation/uncovering from Cam Higby should change the entire narrative. It won’t.

If this is true, then there are coordinated, paid groups of insurrectionists collaborating on a plan to disrupt federal agents carrying out legal enforcement. The groups- led by Tim Walz’s inner circle- are actively subverting the United States government. And people are dying because of their actions.

But, again, won’t matter. Both sides are already entrenched and every conversation we are having is fake and stupid.

Anyway here’s the video.

 
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