National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

Full disagree.

We didn't just show up at this exact moment in time. Tom Homan, Kristi Noem, and everyone else have been "speaking" to the community for months. They were labeled fascists, racists, xenophobes and all the rest. Their character was assassinated in the media and elected officials openly defied the federal government on this issue. That very community that somehow now deserves measured and soft-voiced conversation are the ones burning the American flag, waving Mexican flags, and hurling concrete (hitting officers in the head) at people trying to quell these riots. Armed drug and human traffickers, sexual predators, and violent humans are the "community" we are now supposed to treat with kid gloves, while they burn LA to the ground?


I reject your appeal to emotion about going into schools and grabbing parents- they violated the law coming here, they're illegal, we the people voted to for deportations of illegal immigrants. Those parents put their children at risk, if anything. Not only because they've violated and desecrated the law of the US and the constitution, but because this has a very real impact on our voting rights and election processes via including those illegals in the census. I think this is the 10th time I have said this, and I will keep saying it, because that vote of yours you are so protective of is diluted by the people in those schools and those parents. States like Cali (and other sanctuary states) not only earmark nearly hundreds of billions of your tax dollars to perpetuate this problem, those states are then granted outsize power in our system thanks to counting those illegals in the census for congressional seats.

I reject your opinion about what type of uniform the enforcement agency wears. This could have been handled by guys in suits talking softly in '21. It wasn't. ICE agents are being doxxed, shot at, and worse and you want them to wear- what? Something that doesn't trigger the illegal immigrants?

To your bolded above- good. They can support whatever marxist, soliciast regime they'd like from their country of origin. It makes no never mind to me. Sounds like a future problem you couldn't possibly even support with data you're making up about the feelings of children, but you do you.

BL- this is all just suicidal empathy. I will not be empathetic to the plights of illegals to our own demise. The barbarians are at the gate, and you wanna talk about what clothes we are wearing and how not to offend the kids of illegal immigrants while Los Angeles burns at the hand of funded, organized riots and full on domestic terrorism? Miss me.

-5
I'm not talking about murderers or traffickers. Not every person being rounded up is some god-awful criminal who deserves the harshest treatment. Painting them all the same is just wrong. And let’s be real LA wouldn’t be “burning” if Trump didn’t turn this into a dog-and-pony show. And yeah, fuck the flag-waving idiots and the violent protestors


I understand your rejection. It’s fair you believe they broke the law, they should be treated like criminals and deported, even if all they did was cross over. I dont think like that never will. You talk about the Constitution being violated by their presence, but it sure seems like ICE is the one violating it grabbing U.S. citizens, ignoring due process. Maybe they should care more about the Constitution themselves before waving it around as a shield.


And while we’re on voting? I’ll say it plain: lobbying, dark money, and corporate capture affect my vote far more than some undocumented housekeeper. You want to fix elections? Start with the billionaires, not the busboys.


You say uniforms don’t matter. Then why not wear a regular police uniform? Why not suits? What’s the point of tactical camo in a Home Depot parking lot or a school? It’s not about protection. It’s about performance. It's about theater


And barbarians at the gate? Why should I be worried about people outside when I’ve already got citizens inside the gates—on the left, telling me what to think, what to say, what to feel—and on the right, more than eager to strap on their jackboots and turn on their own countrymen for stepping out of line.


I reject the right’s fear-mongering and paranoia about illegal immigrants. On the list of problems I have with America, they rank at the absolute bottom.
 
I understand your rejection. It’s fair you believe they broke the law, they should be treated like criminals and deported, even if all they did was cross over.
If you don't agree with current US laws about the consequences for people illegally crossing into US territory, then part of this discussion is moot.
I dont think like that never will. You talk about the Constitution being violated by their presence, but it sure seems like ICE is the one violating it grabbing U.S. citizens, ignoring due process.
ICE agents violating the law by ignoring due process doesn't justify other people breaking the law to show up here.
 
I got no problem with ICE detaining people suspected of being in the country illegally, just like I know what might happen to me if I overstayed my visa somewhere.

America is a privilege, paid for by all those who came before us. It is no longer a forest without infrastructure. We don't need millions of random new people yearly, especially ones from leftist shithole countries.

We are in debt, we have a housing/rent crisis, a shit economy, more fentanyl deaths than the rest of Earth by far, and a party supported by about half the country that will burn things down when they don't get their way. That's what this is about, nothing less, nothing more.
 
A couple of points from the peanut gallery:
- This thread had 4 unread pages when I signed in. Normally I'd mentally check out and glaze over by the end of the first/ beginning of the second page. I made it to the third before that happened, so kudos to everyone for having a civil-ish discussion.
- Maybe this changes after the brain fatigue above, but our discussion here centers more on the "how" than the "why" and I think that's significant, if not widely recognized.
- Even I know "arrested" and "detained" are different beasts. Perhaps the only thing I can add here is what people think those look like and what's acceptable for the "detained" part. Kept in place while the issue is sorted out? Moved against your will to a tent city until the issue is sorted out?
- Last, personal, and perhaps inflammatory. A decade and-a-half ago I came on here and ocmplained about contractors being asked for their "papers" on places like Bagram. An E-5 and above could stop us and ask to show our "orders" (Letter of Authorization) given to a contractor. Not a CAC card, but we had to produce actual paperwork to prove we belonged. Why?

Illegal motherfuckers on the base, mostly Indian nationals.

I came on here and complained, whined if you prefer, and a few of you laughed at me. I'd like to invite those people to fuck off into the sun. This shit ain't new and proves once again how practices escalate. "This is unrelated" you might say. Is it really? It was cool then given the circumstances, the threat posed by an illegal third-country national, but NOW people are going to complain? I guess Bagram, Kandahar, and elsewhere didn't count so it didn't matter? Yeah, nah, fuck off to anyone who laughed back in the day.

Weird, it is almost as if a state-issued ID where one has to prove citizenship in order to vote would prevent 99% of the "how" discussion. Well, shit, guess I'm racist for that opinion.

<3's!
 
And let’s be real LA wouldn’t be “burning” if Trump didn’t turn this into a dog-and-pony show.

umm.. It was though.. what are you talking about? Trump didn't push for NG and Marines till at least Saturday afternoon. There was already an escalation since Friday

You talk about the Constitution being violated by their presence, but it sure seems like ICE is the one violating it grabbing U.S. citizens, ignoring due process.

What do you mean they are violating due process?
 
You say uniforms don’t matter. Then why not wear a regular police uniform? Why not suits? What’s the point of tactical camo in a Home Depot parking lot or a school? It’s not about protection. It’s about performance. It's about theater


"...why not wear a regular police uniform..." Because--in case you haven't noticed--the streets are a fucking war-zone. And you can't chase perps in dress shoes and a tie. And cops deserve the same protective and tactical gear that soldiers wear.

2023 according to the FBI:

-- 79,091 officers assaulted.
-- 62 officers shot dead.
-- 422 officers wounded by gunfire
 
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So before I get toooo confused about who is oppressing who...

Where does the California National guard get its Soldiers?
Are they from Trumpistan?
Are they federal shock troops specially trained to oppress the rights of law abiding citizens?

OR

Are these troops drawn from the population of the Democratic Peoples Republic of California?
I'm just asking for a friend because I think it matters.
These are citizens of the United States AND the State of California.
They are also the people that serve in the CANG.

Their leaders are bound by oath to well and faithfully discharge their duties and like ALL US Servicemembers - they are expected to refuse to follow unlawful orders. That seems to create quite the pickle.
Are the California citizens that serve in the CANG trustworthy enough to know NOT to abuse their office - not to violate human rights - not to carry out unlawful orders - not to needlessly cause harm to those that are LITERALLY their fucking neighbors?
Keep in mind - these California citizens serving in the CANG are by all logical reasoning statistically more likely to support folks like Bass, Newsome, Harris, Pelosi, Waters, and even Schiff because it is California citizens (like the ones in the CANG) that vote for these people.
It would seem like everyone wants to be in the CANG until it's time to do CANG shit.

OR

Is it possible that one could say the following event took place in an alternate universe - is it even possible that this could happen in OUR universe...
"Hey Bob - stop using that hammer to break up those cinder blocks in that pallet that miraculously showed up near the protest! Stop throwing those hunks of concrete at innocent people, cars, cops, shop windows, and government officials and go get your OCPs on because we've been called up to do some CANG shit !!!
-We need to go make people stop breaking up the cinder blocks from all of those of those pallets that miraculously showed up near the protest. We also need to tell them to stop throwing those hunks of concrete at innocent people, cars, cops, shop windows, and government officials and ESPECIALLY make sure that you let them know that WE were just on their side, throwing those hunks of concrete at innocent people, cars, cops, shop windows, and government officials.

So -in conclusion:
Either the entire CANG and all of their leaders are fully aware that there is NOTHING "illegal" about what is going on and they are well and faithfully discharging their duty to uphold and defend the Constitution while the entire USA is being gaslit by the usual band of self righteous, virtue signaling, leftist, activist, bullshit spewing democrat wing of the communist party and they are just doing what needs to be done while the usual band of self righteous, virtue signaling, leftist, activist, bullshit spewing democrat wing of the communist party that THEY elected continue to gaslight the entire USA

OR

The CANG is just full of shit because they swore an oath to Newsome and should be refusing to follow the unlawful orders of the Orangeman - because it can't be both.

...again, just asking for a friend.
 

Cars have license plates, police can run license plates, faces can be recorded and eventually used for investigation, charges, and prosecution...

Preaching to the choir here, but back to my earlier harping-on-this-subject post. Are the police in on it, incompetent, lazy, or being forced to NOT investigate?

This ain't rocket surgery, so how does this keep happening? I could be super inflammatory, but I'll stop short of whataboutism and let this stand on its own merit(s).
 
Cars have license plates, police can run license plates, faces can be recorded and eventually used for investigation, charges, and prosecution...

Preaching to the choir here, but back to my earlier harping-on-this-subject post. Are the police in on it, incompetent, lazy, or being forced to NOT investigate?

This ain't rocket surgery, so how does this keep happening? I could be super inflammatory, but I'll stop short of whataboutism and let this stand on its own merit(s).
All valid questions. Another fun wrinkle, maybe the LEOs can speak to but this is just me.

Let's say I worked as a police officer who has been made to be the bad guy for five straight years. Take away funding, allowing folks' family to be doxxed, having to consider pulling the ratchet to save my own life while also wondering if my DA is going to put me in prison for life over it...

THEN you put me in a scenario where the "community" I am supposed to be protecting is organizing against me, shooting mortar rounds at me, hurling cinder blocks at me, completely overwhelming me while my mayor and my governor are saying that not only are the riots "mostly peaceful", but that it's the President's fault...

Maybe, just maybe, my appetite for some solid gumshoe work for this sort of matter is minimal, and the only thing I can really focus my attention on is not dying in the street and hoping I can help my partner not do the same.

Oh, and remember, pallets of bricks and funded riots are misinformation. I found a snopes article that debunked it.
 
All valid questions. Another fun wrinkle, maybe the LEOs can speak to but this is just me.

Let's say I worked as a police officer who has been made to be the bad guy for five straight years. Take away funding, allowing folks' family to be doxxed, having to consider pulling the ratchet to save my own life while also wondering if my DA is going to put me in prison for life over it...

THEN you put me in a scenario where the "community" I am supposed to be protecting is organizing against me, shooting mortar rounds at me, hurling cinder blocks at me, completely overwhelming me while my mayor and my governor are saying that not only are the riots "mostly peaceful", but that it's the President's fault...

Maybe, just maybe, my appetite for some solid gumshoe work for this sort of matter is minimal, and the only thing I can really focus my attention on is not dying in the street and hoping I can help my partner not do the same.

Oh, and remember, pallets of bricks and funded riots are misinformation. I found a snopes article that debunked it.

I'm onboard with this scenario. I also wonder how many (damn it, we're getting into the count hypotheticals again) bricks need to land on cop cars before the union is holding a press conference screaming about officer protection and who is behind all of this.

That said, until the ninja pallet deliveries are addressed, we can count on seeing them time and time again during these "mostly peaceful protests."
 
I'm onboard with this scenario. I also wonder how many (damn it, we're getting into the count hypotheticals again) bricks need to land on cop cars before the union is holding a press conference screaming about officer protection and who is behind all of this.

That said, until the ninja pallet deliveries are addressed, we can count on seeing them time and time again during these "mostly peaceful protests."
 
Y'all know the best part about all of this? ALL OF THIS?

It wouldn't happen if we'd followed the fucking laws in the first place. Some of the hand wringers out there liike Newsome et. al., where were they when illegals streamed across the border? Cheering them on. Facilitating the crime. Funding the crime. Sheltering the criminals. The media, citizens, spineless politicians? Cheering them on, staying quiet, or calling opponents of this unchecked fuckery "racist" and all of the other "ists" out there.

So, whatever we think of the current administration's actions, good, bad, or other, none of this would have happened without the Democrat party and Joe Biden (and his handlers) allowing this shit to happen. When you allow the rule of law die on the vine, don't be surprised if the repercussions hurt your feelings.

For fuck's sake. (Give me my god damn crossthread points and go away)
 
So, whatever we think of the current administration's actions, good, bad, or other, none of this would have happened without the Democrat party and Joe Biden (and his handlers) allowing this shit to happen. When you allow the rule of law die on the vine, don't be surprised if the repercussions hurt your feelings.

Hard agree with this. Instead of passing legislation to change procedures or fund courts to move faster, they just gave legal protection to those using the CBP One app to let them in while they waited for asylum court hearings.

Trump revoked that legal status, which is why so many of these ICE arrests are at courthouses; easier to pump up your numbers when you go after people already tracked in the system.

I feel empathy for these people because those going through the asylum process did the right thing (You have to be in the US to request asylum) but it's also not illegal for Trump to rescind the Biden policy.

It's a symptom of the overall problem of using EOs and "creative policies" to govern the country.
 
Y'all know the best part about all of this? ALL OF THIS?

It wouldn't happen if we'd followed the fucking laws in the first place. Some of the hand wringers out there liike Newsome et. al., where were they when illegals streamed across the border? Cheering them on. Facilitating the crime. Funding the crime. Sheltering the criminals. The media, citizens, spineless politicians? Cheering them on, staying quiet, or calling opponents of this unchecked fuckery "racist" and all of the other "ists" out there.

So, whatever we think of the current administration's actions, good, bad, or other, none of this would have happened without the Democrat party and Joe Biden (and his handlers) allowing this shit to happen. When you allow the rule of law die on the vine, don't be surprised if the repercussions hurt your feelings.

For fuck's sake. (Give me my god damn crossthread points and go away)
+7.25

I'd like to channel my inner @Box on this one, if you'll grant me the space.

None of this is happening in a silo. There is a very clear pathway to the scenario in LA, and more is coming. June 14th.

... students took over Evergreen University in 2017 over the "Day of Absence", which was racism in practice. No national response, no deterrance. SJW's know now there is no penalty for taking over federally funded spaces.
... Portland had an entire year in 2018 of violent protests. No national response, no deterrence. SJW's start to show coordination.
... 2019, we had- Anti-ICE protests (CO), Stright Pride protest/counter protest in Boston, 2 in Portland where Antifa assaulted people with bear spray and tasers (one was a teenage girl). These are also the protests where journalist Andy Ngo was assaulted and later doxxed. No national response or deterrance. More NGO's hop on, Antifa starts publishing fliers on how to instigate, how not to get caught, starts publishing ads for instigators who will be paid.
... 2020, too many to list. Federal buildings burned down, officers assaulted, St John's church burned to the ground, President forced into a bunker, Police precinct taken over and burned to the ground (Minn), $20B in damage, Seattle and CHOP, some estimates at 25 dead, some numbers higher. No national response, "mostly peaceful protests", narrative of oppressed/oppressor and how the "oppressed" can do no wrong when "protesting" the "oppressors". Anything done in the name of Geroge Floyd is absolved.
... 2021, Howard, Portland, Columbia had the first rumblings of "takeovers"- Howard students occupied a building for a month. The first "Pro-Palestine" marches/takeovers are seen.
...In 2022, we had a nice little break, except for the Roe v Wade decision, which involved Supreme Court justices being targeted at their house after the decision was leaked. There were no arrests, no deterrence, and we don't even know who leaked the decision.
... 2023 - present- University students have been indoctrinated and truly believe that they can cover their faces, take over federal buildings, hurl rocks at federal officers performing official duties. Protestors believe they can be as violent as they want as long as they're on the side of the "oppressed". No violence they commit can possibly be wrong in this framework- because fascism, racism, Zionism, colonialism, whatever -ism you want is the real issue and they must resist. Murder a CEO on the streets in cold blood? Celebrated. Firebomb old women, peacefully raising money for hostages? Not a hate crime, easily explained away.

And that's how we got here. Funded protests with paid agitators dropping off materials and funded by dark money NGOs, happening nationwide at the hands of a domestic terror organization.

To try and make this issue into some nebulous referendum on "the way we police" or "first amendment rights" is being purposefully obtuse about the fact pattern we have seen since 2015.

LA is not happening in a bubble. The red-green alliance and Antifa didn't just magically appear. Videos with "organizers" with radios and a chain of command calling for logistical support isn't "protesting".

/end
 
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