National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

Anything done in the name of resistance will be absolved.

Disgusting.


ETA- No, I don’t know the motivations of the driver. Yes, I know it was folks protesting the thing I agree with. I don’t condone this action in any way- from whatever ‘side’. Realized some folks can’t have two ideas in their heads at once so I had to clarify with this edit.
 
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amlove21 said:
Anything done in the name of resistance will be absolved.

Disgusting.


ETA- No, I don’t know the motivations of the driver. Yes, I know it was folks protesting the thing I agree with. I don’t condone this action in any way- from whatever ‘side’. Realized some folks can’t have two ideas in their heads at once so I had to clarify with this edit.
Click to expand...

Luckily it doesn't seem like anyone got rolled over, but that's still a shit move.

It'd be nice if people understood their individual actions have far reaching consequences (especially in the digital age).
 
Kraut783 said:
This reminds me of the climate activist in Europe...trying to shut down road and the people aren't having any of it and just drive through or pull them out of the way.


People will just get sick of this crap...
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LA needs to get its shit together and now. Guard, LAPD, Marines, don’t care.

Because you *really* wanna see shit pop off? Push people to where citizens are taking what actions they think necessary agains other citizens. That’s when things go south for real.
 
amlove21 said:
Lots to unpack here. To your bolded- rank your problems with America, I am tracking that illegal mass migration and it's impacts to taxes, resources, congressional seats, human trafficking, drug trafficking, and domestic terror attacks is last.

For brevity, just list your top 5 problems that you have with America.
Click to expand...
  1. America’s increasing division between left and right—it’s getting worse, and I think it’s going to end badly.
  2. Trump and the right’s growing love affair with authoritarianism.
  3. The cost of living.
  4. Student loans.
  5. The left’s wave of anti-American sentiment.
And medical care yeah, that should be universal by now.

In the end, though, none of this seems to matter. Trump and many of his hardcore supporters wanted it to play out this way. I think this is all a dog and pony show, designed to stir fear and push people into accepting authoritarian control. And if that’s what they want, then fine go all the way. Why stop at undocumented immigrants
 
Jaknight said:
  1. America’s increasing division between left and right—it’s getting worse, and I think it’s going to end badly.
  2. Trump and the right’s growing love affair with authoritarianism.
  3. The cost of living.
  4. Student loans.
  5. The left’s wave of anti-American sentiment.
And medical care yeah, that should be universal by now.

In the end, though, none of this seems to matter. Trump and many of his hardcore supporters wanted it to play out this way. I think this is all a dog and pony show, designed to stir fear and push people into accepting authoritarian control. And if that’s what they want, then fine go all the way. Why stop at undocumented immigrants
Click to expand...

Show me where the Trump administration is being Authoritarian? Was Clinton an authoritarian when had thousands of ICE raids in the 90s? When he deployed the Marines to put down the Rodney King Riots?

How is enforcing the law being an authoritarian? Because the Democrats actually were authoritarian. They just didn't enforce immigration law.

Deporting illegals isn't being an authoritarian, it's doing his job as POTUS.

The Left? They need to get gone. They've imported anti-American ideology. They can move to China.
 
ThunderHorse said:
Show me where the Trump administration is being Authoritarian? Was Clinton an authoritarian when had thousands of ICE raids in the 90s? When he deployed the Marines to put down the Rodney King Riots?

How is enforcing the law being an authoritarian? Because the Democrats actually were authoritarian. They just didn't enforce immigration law.

Deporting illegals isn't being an authoritarian, it's doing his job as POTUS.

The Left? They need to get gone. They've imported anti-American ideology. They can move to China.
Click to expand...
I would say that ignoring court orders to return deported individuals invoking wartime powers like the Enemy Alien Act during peacetime, denying immigrants especially those who have lived here peacefully and built roots a fair hearing, and making legal immigration even harder by changing laws, are actions I find suspicious and wrong, even if some believe they're necessary.
 
Jaknight said:
I would say that ignoring court orders to return deported individuals invoking wartime powers like the Enemy Alien Act during peacetime, denying immigrants especially those who have lived here peacefully and built roots a fair hearing, and making legal immigration even harder by changing laws, are actions I find suspicious and wrong, even if some believe they're necessary.
Click to expand...

I think part of the problem is the courts ordering the stays or whatever are doing so outside of their jurisdiction. But that's not new; Biden did the same thing, ignoring court orders.

I do feel like immigrants who have been in the community with no criminal activity and ties to the community should have opportunity for assimilation and not necessarily be carted off to El Salvador. But at the end of the day if they are here illegally who can really be surprised if they are deported?
 
Devildoc said:
I do feel like immigrants who have been in the community with no criminal activity and ties to the community should have opportunity for assimilation and not necessarily be carted off to El Salvador.
Click to expand...

A political lifetime ago (January-ish) I mentioned that Trump could have channeled Reagan and developed an Amnesty Program.

It would have allowed ICE/CBP to focus more time/money on high risk individuals instead of meeting quotas, had people willing submitting themselves for processing, single-handedly build on the moment of minority support for the GOP and, for pure schadenfreude, seen Dems losing their minds arguing it was someone bad or misleading.

Obviously note a solution everybody might support, but there was precedent and benefits from it. Would have been a great jumping off point for overall immigration reform, which is something that needs tackled.
 
Jaknight said:
  1. America’s increasing division between left and right—it’s getting worse, and I think it’s going to end badly.
  2. Trump and the right’s growing love affair with authoritarianism.
  3. The cost of living.
  4. Student loans.
  5. The left’s wave of anti-American sentiment.
And medical care yeah, that should be universal by now.

In the end, though, none of this seems to matter. Trump and many of his hardcore supporters wanted it to play out this way. I think this is all a dog and pony show, designed to stir fear and push people into accepting authoritarian control. And if that’s what they want, then fine go all the way. Why stop at undocumented immigrants
Click to expand...
Thanks for answering. Just an observation from your bolded; you mentioned the division between left and right as your most prescient problem, and then lobbed an untenable and unprovable ad hom at the leader of the right wing. Do you find that the least bit ironic? Maybe just a little?

How do you think Obama's 8 years affected this "left/right" division? When did that division start, in your estimation?

Jaknight said:
I would say that ignoring court orders to return deported individuals invoking wartime powers like the Enemy Alien Act during peacetime, denying immigrants especially those who have lived here peacefully and built roots a fair hearing, and making legal immigration even harder by changing laws, are actions I find suspicious and wrong, even if some believe they're necessary.
Click to expand...
Woof. What court order did he ignore? Certainly, you aren't talking about the Supreme Court 9-0 ruling that prescribed the facilitation of a return of (alleged) human trafficker, charged illegal immigrant, charged wife beater (with a boot!), and MS-13 gang member Kilmar Abrigo Garcia? Fun update- he's back, awaiting his trial for a new charge. So, technically, the US GOV complied explicitly with that court order, since, you know, he's here and awaiting trial for selling children into sex slavery.

To your bolded- which specific laws were changed? How did that make legal immigration harder?
 
Cookie_ said:
A political lifetime ago (January-ish) I mentioned that Trump could have channeled Reagan and developed an Amnesty Program.

It would have allowed ICE/CBP to focus more time/money on high risk individuals instead of meeting quotas, had people willing submitting themselves for processing, single-handedly build on the moment of minority support for the GOP and, for pure schadenfreude, seen Dems losing their minds arguing it was someone bad or misleading.

Obviously note a solution everybody might support, but there was precedent and benefits from it. Would have been a great jumping off point for overall immigration reform, which is something that needs tackled.
Click to expand...
You can draw a straight line from that 1986 bill to the problems California had today.

Reagan, with a sweep of a pen, granted citizenship to 3M illegal immigrants and turned Cali from a Republican state to the sanctuary state they are today. This is precisely why I care about immigration so deeply- illegals are counted on the census. The census leads to congressional and senatorial power for these states. Dumping 3M voters in Cali is how we got here today, and why the left is coordinating violent riots all over America a the thought of removing illegal immigrants.

Reagan wasn't a conservative, and the Amnesty Bill is only second to the Flores Agreement in net-negative impacts on immigration in this country. The Flores Agreement enabled the human trafficking of children on a disgusting and grand scale. Here is the OIG report on the February '23 findings.

Bottom line- 291,000 unaccounted for kids.
 
amlove21 said:
My absolute favorite video today. I was told that not listening to BIPOC individuals was racist and bigoted... is that not true, chat?

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You see, this is what stymies me: the fact they do this and cannot actually see with any intellectual honesty the issues with their argument. They actually think their argument makes some sort of sense.

It's like they could eat a can of alphabet soup and shit a more logical argument.
 
Devildoc said:
You see, this is what stymies me: the fact they do this and cannot actually see with any intellectual honesty the issues with their argument. They actually think their argument makes some sort of sense.

It's like they could eat a can of alphabet soup and shit a more logical argument.
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This is more of an overhead observation about the progressives/liberals (not all dems)- it's the lack of principles. They're willing to abandon anything resembling a principled argument for whatever suits them now. This works in their favor most times, because America rides trends.

Every single issue they champion completely lacks a simple principle at it's base. "We are the party of minorities!" ... well here is a video of two progressive folks mocking a minority because the current thing is more important than the principle you supposedly espouse.

Not that anyone ever asks, but I can take *any* issue and give you the non-secular bumper sticker principle for every single issue I talk about/care about. Abortion. Immigration. Taxation. Voting. Literally any issue. From there we can have as nuanced a conversation as you'd like, and until presented with data that confounds or outright contradicts my principled position, that's where I make my home.

There are plenty of democrats that I disagree with (Ro Khanna notably)- but they have a principled position on topics and rarely stray from it, so I will give them credit where it's due. But those folks are so few and far between it's easy to know their names. Being fair, it's also a huge problem on the right. And center. Reall, all of politics. But I digress.
 
amlove21 said:
This is more of an overhead observation about the progressives/liberals (not all dems)- it's the lack of principles. They're willing to abandon anything resembling a principled argument for whatever suits them now. This works in their favor most times, because America rides trends.

Every single issue they champion completely lacks a simple principle at it's base. "We are the party of minorities!" ... well here is a video of two progressive folks mocking a minority because the current thing is more important than the principle you supposedly espouse.

Not that anyone ever asks, but I can take *any* issue and give you the non-secular bumper sticker principle for every single issue I talk about/care about. Abortion. Immigration. Taxation. Voting. Literally any issue. From there we can have as nuanced a conversation as you'd like, and until presented with data that confounds or outright contradicts my principled position, that's where I make my home.

There are plenty of democrats that I disagree with (Ro Khanna notably)- but they have a principled position on topics and rarely stray from it, so I will give them credit where it's due. But those folks are so few and far between it's easy to know their names. Being fair, it's also a huge problem on the right. And center. Reall, all of politics. But I digress.
Click to expand...

I think abandoning principles is part of it, but as you allude, I think a bigger part if their hive mentality groupthink, which has gone from simply illogical to totally irrational. That's even with the right/GOP/whomever having receipts. They play the ultimate game of gaslighting, telling you that Gavin Newsome never asked for the national guard before or that Bush, Clinton, and Obama did not activate parts of the NG, despite evidence being shoved under their wide-set eyes and obligate mouth-breathing face.

People don't want debate, they don't want pesky 'facts' to get in the way, they don't want to have a conversation because, well, OMB (Orange Man Bad) and that's all there is to it.
 

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