National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

[Box]

Cupid Stunt

...it must be getting close to valentines day

 

[DA SWO]

Cupid Stunt

...it must be getting close to valentines day

Old hippies get uglier as they age.

 

[amlove21]

Aren't you out west near an In- n -Out?

I SAID WHAT I SAID.

In n Out is trash. Burgers are mid, fries are laughable. The only thing they do well is logistics, no matter how long the line you're getting through quickly.

 

[TLDR20]

I SAID WHAT I SAID.

In n Out is trash. Burgers are mid, fries are laughable. The only thing they do well is logistics, no matter how long the line you're getting through quickly.

-10 this is a terrible take.

 

[DA SWO]

I SAID WHAT I SAID.

In n Out is trash. Burgers are mid, fries are laughable. The only thing they do well is logistics, no matter how long the line you're getting through quickly.

+10

 

[RackMaster]

Five Guy's FTW!!

 

[Topkick]

I SAID WHAT I SAID.

In n Out is trash. Burgers are mid, fries are laughable. The only thing they do well is logistics, no matter how long the line you're getting through quickly.

OK, cool.

 

[Marauder06]

We all knew this would be the outcome.

Defund movement faces 'absolute rejection' as murders drop and police budgets climb: law enforcement group

 

[ThunderHorse]

I SAID WHAT I SAID.

In n Out is trash. Burgers are mid, fries are laughable. The only thing they do well is logistics, no matter how long the line you're getting through quickly.

You're losing a lot of points here. Baconator take is solid. But if you like Five Guys you're dead to me.

 

[Cookie_]

We all knew this would be the outcome.

Defund movement faces 'absolute rejection' as murders drop and police budgets climb: law enforcement group

The Fort Worth police+fire budget increased from $492 million to $690 million (40%) but the murder rate increased by 120%.

Increasing emergency service budgets increase murders!!

Or maybe it's just a single factor correlation that might not have that high of a causative factor.

These types of articles remind me of the old Mark Twain bit about lies and statistics; we can say anything we want if we massage the data right.

 

[ThunderHorse]

The Fort Worth police+fire budget increased from $492 million to $690 million (40%) but the murder rate increased by 120%.

Increasing emergency service budgets increase murders!!

Or maybe it's just a single factor correlation that might not have that high of a causative factor.

These types of articles remind me of the old Mark Twain bit about lies and statistics; we can say anything we want if we massage the data right.

Fort Worth is interesting. It's got so much money and then it is HOOD AF.

 

[DA SWO]

The Fort Worth police+fire budget increased from $492 million to $690 million (40%) but the murder rate increased by 120%.

Increasing emergency service budgets increase murders!!

Or maybe it's just a single factor correlation that might not have that high of a causative factor.

These types of articles remind me of the old Mark Twain bit about lies and statistics; we can say anything we want if we massage the data right.

How many murders?

 

[Marauder06]

The Fort Worth police+fire budget increased from $492 million to $690 million (40%) but the murder rate increased by 120%.

Increasing emergency service budgets increase murders!!

Or maybe it's just a single factor correlation that might not have that high of a causative factor.

These types of articles remind me of the old Mark Twain bit about lies and statistics; we can say anything we want if we massage the data right.

Come on man, how are you going to be a long-term member of this site and trot out stats like that and not provide supporting links?

Also, "defund the police" wasn't "defund emergency services," and that's not what the article I posted was about, either. You conflated the two.

We all knew exactly what would happen in areas with reduced police activities: in the aggregate, and over time, crime will go up. "Defund the police" was unworkable and nonsensical leftist garbage. But, by all means, please feel free to make the case that less policing leads to less crime, and if if Fort Worth hadn't increased its police force, that the homicide rate would have been less, not more, than what you posted.

 

[Cookie_]

How many murders?

Great question!

Fort Worth went from 9-20. Not a huge jump, but it sure sounds scary when listed as statistics.

 

[Cookie_]

Come on man, how are you going to be a long-term member of this site and trot out stats like that and not provide supporting links?

Also, "defund the police" wasn't "defund emergency services," and that's not what the article I posted was about, either. You conflated the two.

The murders came from the document linked within the Fox News article. I tried to get clean numbers about the police budget specifically, but the best I can find is adding Them and fire.

We all knew exactly what would happen in areas with reduced police activities: in the aggregate, and over time, crime will go up. "Defund the police" was unworkable and nonsensical leftist garbage.

"Defund the police" as an idea became stupid once it became "get rid of police".

The original idea of "maybe instead of the city buying cops Bearcats they could invest that money in mental health services" is a good idea.

Cops are not social workers. Having people that respond to non-violent crimes frees cops up to do their real jobs.
I.E. out here we have a community service patrol that deals with traffic incidents, non-emergency calls, etc.

But, by all means, please feel free to make the case that less policing leads to less crime, and if if Fort Worth hadn't increased its police force, that the homicide rate would have been less, not more, than what you posted.

Not what I was saying, but it's also true that the article isn't saying the inverse.
Are those budget increases to hiring more staff than what they were previously authorized? Is it pensions/overtime? New equipment? Simply keeping up with inflation? None of that information is provided, so we've got no idea if its actually increasing the force or not.

Denver's rate has been dropping since a high in 2021. I can promise you that the "get rid of cops" version of defund was still well and active the past few years, so they didnt increase murders at least.

Nationally, rates have been dropping.

ETA: My overall point is crime is an extremely complex and multifaceted thing. Simply saying more money=less bad thing is not a good arguement if any jackass with google (me) can find more money=more bad thing.

 

[ThunderHorse]

The murders came from the document linked within the Fox News article. I tried to get clean numbers about the police budget specifically, but the best I can find is adding Them and fire.



"Defund the police" as an idea became stupid once it became "get rid of police".

The original idea of "maybe instead of the city buying cops Bearcats they could invest that money in mental health services" is a good idea.

Cops are not social workers. Having people that respond to non-violent crimes frees cops up to do their real jobs.
I.E. out here we have a community service patrol that deals with traffic incidents, non-emergency calls, etc.



Not what I was saying, but it's also true that the article isn't saying the inverse.
Are those budget increases to hiring more staff than what they were previously authorized? Is it pensions/overtime? New equipment? Simply keeping up with inflation? None of that information is provided, so we've got no idea if its actually increasing the force or not.

Denver's rate has been dropping since a high in 2021. I can promise you that the "get rid of cops" version of defund was still well and active the past few years, so they didnt increase murders at least.

Nationally, rates have been dropping.

ETA: My overall point is crime is an extremely complex and multifaceted thing. Simply saying more money=less bad thing is not a good arguement if any jackass with google (me) can find more money=more bad thing.

Non-violent crimes become violent very fast, how is a non-LEO going to effect an arrest? The whole idea of sending a social worker instead of beat cop also doesn't work. NOW, if you send a social worker AND a cop...I'm interested in the conversation. Also the conversation didn't start about NOT buying Bearcats, that was a dog whistle.

 

[Box]

Less cops just means I can drive faster with less risk

 

[Cookie_]

Non-violent crimes become violent very fast, how is a non-LEO going to effect an arrest? The whole idea of sending a social worker instead of beat cop also doesn't work. NOW, if you send a social worker AND a cop...I'm interested in the conversation.

I've seen community service guys/gals with and without an armed officer. Not sure how that determination is made by dispatch, but it does seem like they have internal policies for that reason.

Also the conversation didn't start about NOT buying Bearcats, that was a dog whistle.

Not sure if you're talking about me personally or the idea of defund overall.
I used it because it was a big story in Colorado a few years ago about why a police department of a of dozen people Needs an MRAP.

The militarization of police has been a topic of discussion for decades at this point, way before "defund" as its current concept existed.

We can swap out my example for a Cybertruck and it's the same point; is this a good use of funds?

 

[Marauder06]

The murders came from the document linked within the Fox News article. I tried to get clean numbers about the police budget specifically, but the best I can find is adding Them and fire.



"Defund the police" as an idea became stupid once it became "get rid of police".

The original idea of "maybe instead of the city buying cops Bearcats they could invest that money in mental health services" is a good idea.

Cops are not social workers. Having people that respond to non-violent crimes frees cops up to do their real jobs.
I.E. out here we have a community service patrol that deals with traffic incidents, non-emergency calls, etc.



Not what I was saying, but it's also true that the article isn't saying the inverse.
Are those budget increases to hiring more staff than what they were previously authorized? Is it pensions/overtime? New equipment? Simply keeping up with inflation? None of that information is provided, so we've got no idea if its actually increasing the force or not.

Denver's rate has been dropping since a high in 2021. I can promise you that the "get rid of cops" version of defund was still well and active the past few years, so they didnt increase murders at least.

Nationally, rates have been dropping.

ETA: My overall point is crime is an extremely complex and multifaceted thing. Simply saying more money=less bad thing is not a good arguement if any jackass with google (me) can find more money=more bad thing.

You're trying to argue the point you wished I made, instead of the one I did make. This was my post:



"We all knew this would be the outcome." And yes, we all knew that Defund the Police would be absolutely rejected, because it was absolutely insane. You choosing to cherry-pick an outlier from a list that shows a clear trend in the opposite direction of the argument you chose to make doesn't change that.

As for this:

"Defund the police" as an idea became stupid once it became "get rid of police".

The original idea of "maybe instead of the city buying cops Bearcats they could invest that money in mental health services" is a good idea.

Nope, it was a stupid idea since day one, because from day one it ALWAYS meant "defund the police." If they wanted to "reform" the police, the movement would be "reform the police" or "make City Hall make better funding decisions," not "defund the police."

 

[ThunderHorse]

I've seen community service guys/gals with and without an armed officer. Not sure how that determination is made by dispatch, but it does seem like they have internal policies for that reason.



Not sure if you're talking about me personally or the idea of defund overall.
I used it because it was a big story in Colorado a few years ago about why a police department of a of dozen people Needs an MRAP.

The militarization of police has been a topic of discussion for decades at this point, way before "defund" as its current concept existed.

We can swap out my example for a Cybertruck and it's the same point; is this a good use of funds?

Talking about the defund movement overall.