Navy SWCC vs. National Guard SF

[Arf]

NSW and the entirety of the Marine Corps is shifting focus to coastal work because of how much coastal space there is in our focus areas.
I think that is both good and bad for NSW.
1.Army is taking over all of the battle space inland, and we won’t be bothering with those areas as much because we have a lot of potential risk in our specific niche on the coast.
2. Our specific niche on the coast means that we are extremely valuable for possible conflict in the future.


I wanted to quote my buddy but he has not given me permission yet so I won’t include his name. He made a good point that I haven’t considered before.

“Everything I've heard from the Army/Air Force SOF side is that we are closing up shop in Afghanistan, and so with the limited amount of theaters going on, I'm worried there won't be a mission for Guard SF except the foreign internal defense mission around the world in countries where there isn't much combat to be had, if any at all. I figure if Im going to be in (relatively) peacetime SOF, I may as well spend it flying around on fast boats with machine guns instead of with a radio and a rucksack.”

This quote gave me a lot to think about. I’m worried that I’m suffering from “the grass is greener on the other side” syndrome. ESPECIALLY as NG because I LOVE being active duty and would very much prefer to stay active duty, but I want the NG location.
I still think that the risk is worth it though, and I’m going to jump ship and go SF when the timing is right.

I think it is worth noting that out of everyone else, the reputation of SF within Special Operations Command is probably better than any other unit. Their people skills are generally the best, and they are commonly regarded as the most intelligent guys in general to work with.
There are bad apples in any unit, and there are phenomenal apples in units that have a terrible reputation. Personally though, it has not been lost on me how excited my guys are about working with SF over other units.

 

[Joemamma234]

Let me preface this with saying that it is not my intention to get into anything you would prefer to leave undiscussed, Arf.

Of course we are an insertion/extraction platform. However we are now much more than that, and we are operating solo in capacities that no one else can.

What would make SWCCs desirable to fill this role? From an outside perspective, it would seem that SEALs would be the natural choice.
Or is SWCC's evolving role centered around supporting SEALs, just in more capacities then insertion/extraction? Or are SWCCs going to be running unilateral missions that take place in their boats?

 

[Arf]

Let me preface this with saying that it is not my intention to get into anything you would prefer to leave undiscussed, Arf.



What would make SWCCs desirable to fill this role? From an outside perspective, it would seem that SEALs would be the natural choice.
Or is SWCC's evolving role centered around supporting SEALs, just in more capacities then insertion/extraction? Or are SWCCs going to be running unilateral missions that take place in their boats?

I cannot say why we are used over other units. I talked about it with the staff and it just isn’t smart for me to go in depth of what sets us apart from everyone else since Iraq.

We are not exclusively a support role. We do unilateral missions that take place on boats, but that also extend to land.
Expect to not do much of the land stuff though. However I feel comfortable saying that you will get a lot of Foreign Internal Defense style missions.

 

[AWP]

Guys, I can remember a time when this forum's knowledge on SWCC could fit into a shot glass.

Now it is a barrel.

I know some of y'all are curious and want everything you can, but that isn't realistic. Pay your money and take your chances. Sometimes information isn't in the public domain for a reason...

 

[Joemamma234]

Guys, I can remember a time when this forum's knowledge on SWCC could fit into a shot glass.

Now it is a barrel.

I know some of y'all are curious and want everything you can, but that isn't realistic. Pay your money and take your chances. Sometimes information isn't in the public domain for a reason...

Yep, my bad. I'll take the hint. I appreciate the info that has been given though. This website is an invaluable resource, and has broadened and deepened my perspective and understanding of both the military and SOF.

 

[player1]

Well there you have it ladies and gentlemen.

@swcc I haven’t deployed yet. I would be lying if I didn’t admit that I wake up in a cold sweat at night with nightmares that my deployment is going to consist of strictly cold insertion/extraction missions. I did not join the military to be an Uber, and I hope that isn’t what happens.

The boys coming home from deployments recently are working a lot in NON-insertion/extraction missions depending on the area of operation. I’m debating in my head whether or not to be more specific with what they are doing, but they are doing a lot of work solo, as well as jointly with other special operations units. There are some areas of operation where the guys came home mad that they were bored though.

I’m not sure when you left or what your class was, but SWCC has gotten a major overhaul, most notably in the pipeline. That being said, my personal opinion is that we have a long ways to go in our evolution. The senior guys insist that everything has gotten much better though.

@player1 Not many of the newer generation has seen combat in my community, but lately things have been getting tense, and in areas where our very unique skill set is a serious asset. Who knows what will happen in the near future. Knowing my luck, as soon as I leave SWCC, they will be flooded with combat stories.

A big reason why I’m hoping to go SF is that I’m hoping that my chance to see combat is going to be higher than where I am at in SWCC. Realize though that things are slowing down everywhere. My SEAL brethren are barely getting any combat time either. My personal SF buddies are frustrated with lack of combat too.


It has come to my attention through the SOF rumor mill that the general belief is that Rangers are the best chance for combat opportunities unless you screen for one of the units that shall not be mentioned (I’ve been scolded a couple of times already. Thanks mom for having my back. If you see this you know who you are and I appreciate it). To screen for one of those units you have to be SOF anyway to even attempt it. SEAL/SWCC can screen for both Army’s and Navy’s but Army SOF cannot screen for Navy’s.

You mentioned to me personally that you were concerned with the absolute beating that we take out on the boats at the coastal teams. Yea... there is that. It’s pretty bad. It is fun as hell though! I can’t express that enough. It. Is. Sooooo much fun. Flying (and yes I mean flying) over the waves at the speeds that we take them, and AT NIGHT with NO LIGHTS! You will never experience anything like that anywhere else unless you are lucky enough to work with SWCC as another unit. You are going to be sore as hell though.

You better not get sea sick. If you do, then the river team at Special Boat Team-22 doesn’t have to deal with waves as much. They shoot a lot more also because of how up close and personal their potential combat situations could be.

I’m not done ranting yet. More to follow.

Thank you so much for all the information. You guys have shed a ton of light on the community and I really think the information here is going to benefit a lot of hopefuls. I'm not really concerned so much about whether I'll see much combat or not. I'm more interested in the actual job duties I'm likely to perform regardless of current times be it peaceful or not.

The advice you got from your friend (saying he'd rather be on the boats than with a ruck and radio in peacetime) is a really powerful statement. That definitely helps me a lot as well.

Regarding seasickness, I feel as though this is something most people would experience at first until they got used it. Is it typically a you either have it or don't situation or do you think tolerance can be developed? I haven't spent a ton of time on boats in the ocean to really know.

 

[Arf]

Thank you so much for all the information. You guys have shed a ton of light on the community and I really think the information here is going to benefit a lot of hopefuls. I'm not really concerned so much about whether I'll see much combat or not. I'm more interested in the actual job duties I'm likely to perform regardless of current times be it peaceful or not.

The advice you got from your friend (saying he'd rather be on the boats than with a ruck and radio in peacetime) is a really powerful statement. That definitely helps me a lot as well.


Regarding seasickness, I feel as though this is something most people would experience at first until they got used it. Is it typically a you either have it or don't situation or do you think tolerance can be developed? I haven't spent a ton of time on boats in the ocean to really know.

I’m glad his statement really hit home for you because it resonated heavily with me as well.

If you go SWCC and you end up regretting it, NG SF doesn’t have an age restriction (At the moment) for prior service, and SEAL and SWCC are able to (at the moment) skip Basic Combat Training (BCT) and Airborne school if you go to Airborne school specifically while a SWCC. Note there is a difference between the Navy’s Static line schools and Army’s. Try and go to Army Airborne school. There is more that is rumored to be able to be able to skip for SEAL and SWCC but I can’t confirm that just yet.

Know that if you fail SWCC and go to the conventional fleet, you will have to go through Army’s Basic and go through every part of the pipeline.



If you still live in California, there is plenty of time to get out on the water. Go deep sea fishing for an entire day. Go whale watching. Try and spend long periods of time out at sea. The smaller the boat the better. I spent years on boats prior to enlisting and I have been sea sick before. Once in a great while I will still get sea sick today.

Some people will occasionally get sea sick. Some people never get sea sick. And then I have known some deck hands and SWCC that get sea sick every single time they go on the open ocean. I have no way of telling you what will happen to you.

People take medication for it, but it makes you a little sleepy. Also, if you go be on the River Team you will not get nearly as bad of sea states.

 

[Joemamma234]

Did your love of the ocean grow after you became a SWCC? Or do most people who become SWCCs love the ocean from the start?
I have heard from aviators that flying grew in them, it wasn't always their calling.

 

[Arf]

Did your love of the ocean grow after you became a SWCC? Or do most people who become SWCCs love the ocean from the start?
I have heard from aviators that flying grew in them, it wasn't always their calling.

I worked out at sea as a civilian prior to being SWCC for a while. There are those of us (myself included) who are the happiest out on the ocean. Then there are those who dread every moment they spend on the ocean.

I’m going to be really sad when I switch to SF and don’t get to be out on the ocean every day, but there are those of us who hate every moment out at sea.

I guess you don’t really know which you will be. Most seem to miss it once they don’t have it anymore.

 

[swcc]

Arf, check it out dude. I can't understand why you are kinda arguing with me. I have spent 10+ years sof in one capacity or another. For you to think a dude with zero deployments is going to tell a guy with multiple deployments what's up is super odd. The swcc leadership that is telling you how much better swcc is now and what cool new things you guys are doing are the dudes I grew up with in swcc. I am not only in the sof community, but talk to these dudes, your leadership, as friends.
For you to say swcc is doing cloak and dagger stuff that is super awesome is ridiculous. I know what you are talking about and most vanilla sof do it. Its not that big of a deal. As far as the swcc medics, fires guys, ect in the boat teams that have been "in the shit". I know that has happened. First, those are one offs, second, they were excited to have that opportunity to simply, SUPPORT, a unit that gets into it. They were not "guys in the house", they were doing jobs to free up shooters.

What you are putting out is exactly the same garbage that tricks guys into going swcc instead of looking at a job that will be a better fit for them. I already said swccs hate to hear it, they are support. I hated it when I was there, and I know you do also. Acceptance is the first step.

As far as the sf guy that is saying he would rather be on a boat during peacetime has a decent outlook. But, as soon as another shooting war breaks out I know where he is going to want to be, not on a boat dropping off his oda. I'm guessing your sf bud is a basic ground skills guy at stennis. He is being paid to be polite...

I reached out to you a while ago when you posted you were thinking about going sf guard with my name and email but haven't heard form you or was even given the courtesy of your name. I am responding at this point because you are posting as a SME on all sof to include SMUs and there are inaccuracies in some of your postings. Guys are on this to get honest truths, to decide on something that will more than likely be a tough endeavor with the possibility of getting washed out. Be honest with what you are and the community is. The last thing you should want is someone to join and be disappointed because you're blowing smoke up their ass acting like boat guys are the Jason Bourne's of the waterways. If you're still interested hit me up...and anyone else who reads this I'd be more than happy to answer plenty of q's.

 

[Arf]

I would appreciate it if you could clarify what exactly I have said that is inaccurate. That way we can get it edited or even taken down completely if I am inadvertently giving too much info away.

It is no mystery that I want to leave SWCC. I don’t think I have blown smoke up anyone’s ass. I’ve given information to the best if my ability, telling him what I do like about my job, while telling him that I still plan to go SF.

Some people have different goals than you and I and they may legitimately still want to be SWCC after reading this thread.

 

[swcc]

I would appreciate it if you could clarify what exactly I have said that is inaccurate. That way we can get it edited or even taken down completely if I am inadvertently giving too much info away.

It is no mystery that I want to leave SWCC. I don’t think I have blown smoke up anyone’s ass. I’ve given information to the best if my ability, telling him what I do like about my job, while telling him that I still plan to go SF.

Some people have different goals than you and I and they may legitimately still want to be SWCC after reading this thread.

"To screen for one of those units you have to be SOF anyway to even attempt it. SEAL/SWCC can screen for both Army’s and Navy’s but Army SOF cannot screen for Navy’s."

That is inaccurate. I think I remember others but I am not going to look through your extensive postings. If you are getting called out about giving up too much info, why not just take a break? You can very easily be cool and give dudes a heads up without even coming close to giving out too much info.

When I say blowing smoke up someone's ass I am referring to you using those one of situations, (SOCM, JTAC, etc) which are far and few between, and not even close to the norm. If hyping up a job that all other SOF unit's do and have been doing for a lot longer than swcc is giving information to the best of your ability I would suggest you refer back to the number one rule of being a new guy... never miss an opportunity to shut the fuck up.

I have no idea why you would not just direct message me and avoid putting this on an open forum. I'd be more than happy to provide my phone number and you could just give me a shout. I want to hook swccs, especially new dudes, up with what I've learned through good and bad decisions.

 

[Arf]

I’m concerned with me inadvertently giving out false information. If I said something that is false, I would prefer it to be called out in the open so that others can see the correction.

 

[Arf]

Before this thread gets locked, I would like to reiterate our conversation here.

Take what I am saying with of salt because I am a new guy. I am a new guy however I am currently there, doing this stuff.

swcc undoubtedly has loads more experience than I do and anyone reading this should devour everything he says. However it appears from his first post that he left SWCC about 10 years ago. He undoubtedly has friends from back in the day but my community is in a different era. We no longer use any of the platforms that we used in Iraq with one exception.

He obviously had a bad experience with SWCC and wanted to leave. I also am not getting what I wanted out of SWCC, and I want to leave.

I have one and only one thing to say that I disagree with. We are no longer purely a insertion/extraction platform. We are no longer purely a support unit. Do we do lots of that stuff? Yes. Is that all we are doing now? No.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I would suggest you refer back to the number one rule of being a new guy... never miss an opportunity to shut the fuck up.

Hey @swcc ,

You are a vetted member here, and it‘s fantastic to have two vetted SWCC members who are willing to contribute. One rule we work very hard at enforcing on ShadowSpear is that of respectful conversation. As you know, the internet gets pretty heated sometimes. It seems like you had a different experience than that of @Arf ’s, and quite honestly I am enjoying reading about it.

That said, it would be best if you take the “shut the F up” conversations to PM. At the end of the day, the site‘s ultimate mission is to help members get ready for their SOF related career, whatever that might be.

Thanks much....

 

[Arf]

As far as the swcc medics, fires guys, ect in the boat teams that have been "in the shit". I know that has happened. First, those are one offs, second, they were excited to have that opportunity to simply, SUPPORT, a unit that gets into it. They were not "guys in the house", they were doing jobs to free up shooters.

I have to speak up for men that I know with Purple Hearts that deserve the recognition. To say that this has been every situation is just not the case, and I have seen the scars of rounds taken in guys who have been apart of these conflicts that speak for themselves. Maybe it started out the way you say, but the scars I have seen tell me that things went south if that were the case.

 

[Kaldak]

I'm a huge fan of you both contributing to this forum. You're part of a small group. We're lucky to have you.

That said, keep the personal stuff in PM, and leave the information to the open forum.

I really don't want this going south.

Please and thank you.

 

[swcc]

I have to speak up for men that I know with Purple Hearts that deserve the recognition. To say that this has been every situation is just not the case, and I have seen the scars of rounds taken in guys who have been apart of these conflicts that speak for themselves. Maybe it started out the way you say, but the scars I have seen tell me that things went south if that were the case.

Please elaborate on exactly how many boat guys have purple hearts. That's a big claim considering the first one since vietnam was a huge deal in the comuity and pretty much everyone heard about it. I just spoke to a senior chief at 22, and more purple hearts would be news to him as well.
Unless you are showering with all black side swccs I'm genuinely curious and a few other guys are also.


Oor-rah, rgr. I didn't meant that as direct fire, just a saying for new dudes.
Kaldak, understood.

 

[Devildoc]

I think you should quit thinking about the time. Being military, much less SOF is going to open so many doors for you, especially in (loose) paramilitary affiliations such as the fire department.

I don’t want to get to into my non-military civilian past to keep me anonymous, but getting hired to be a firefighter can be difficult. Even as a paramedic. You become SOF and that won’t be a worry anymore. You will be one of the top picks. That seems to be more or less the general feeling around most people getting hired anywhere at all as they leave our various SOF communities.
If you want to be SOF, being a city/county firefighter paramedic will be there waiting for you when/if you choose to get out.

The time spent with us is going to be worth your time, and the amount of time it takes to fulfill a dream to serve with one of us is nothing compared to the rewards.

On the other hand, I do think that location could make things easier for you. You being from California, I would recommend going to the 19th Group Special Forces in Los Alamitos, Orange County California, or Special Boat Team-12 in Coronado, San Diego County California. The beauty of NG versus Active Duty SF is that you can at least choose your location (you can choose your location, right?).

My personal grumbles about SWCC are in a few areas. I hate maintenance work, and engineering is not my forte. Boats are not known for their reliability and fortitude, especially salt water boats. Salt water boats, suffering what we put them through are prone to breaking. That means we get to do a lot of wrenching.
SWCC can go to Special Operations Tactical Medic School (SOTM). I really recommend checking out some of my other posts that @Ooh-Rah compiled together where I expand on that further. Special Forces goes through their equivalent and very very very much older, tried and tested Special Operations Combat Medic(SOCM). After finishing SOCM they continue with another 6 months (is that accurate?) of clinical/veterinary type medical training.

Who Attends the Special Operations Combat Medics (SOCM) Course?

A SF Med Sgt. is more of a competent stand alone medical provider than a SOCM or a SOTM. I want that.

We used to get to go to language school but that is rare now. They will offer us unlimited private tutor, but good luck going to a language school. I want to go to language schools.

We did a small amount of cultural/integration/diplomacy training, and will get more depending on where we go. We do in fact do a lot of Foreign Internal Defense (FID) but SF does a lot more. SF does much more cultural training and it may boring, but that is probably the most valuable training for real world use. If you are trying to be an urban Southern California melting pot of culture firefighter, that would be my biggest selling point if I were you.

My contribution is an inch wide and a mile deep and I will keep it focused on my bolded. One would think that former 18Ds, PJs, etc., would be competitive for a .civ EMS job, but in MY area (and generalizing elsewhere based on talking with my colleagues and former colleagues), that's not the case. They have a metric shit-load of trauma experience, and a lot of third world weird experience, but not the general 911 geri/peds/etc experience. When I hired medics, when I was a medic/supe, I would take a guy with 5 years of 911 experience over former SOF medics.

Also in my experience, I have seen a lot come through as RNs as a pipeline to CRNA or NP; I also see some going to the PA school down the street which is focused to former SOF medics.

Of course there is a niche as LE tactical medics, but those gigs are super rare, especially the full time ones, and although right up the alley for former SOF medics, also require 911 experience.

 

[Arf]

Please elaborate on exactly how many boat guys have purple hearts. That's a big claim considering the first one since vietnam was a huge deal in the comuity and pretty much everyone heard about it. I just spoke to a senior chief at 22, and more purple hearts would be news to him as well.
Unless you are showering with all black side swccs I'm genuinely curious and a few other guys are also.


Oor-rah, rgr. I didn't meant that as direct fire, just a saying for new dudes.
Kaldak, understood.

I’m not about to put personal information up, and I have no way of knowing EXACTLY how many Purple Hearts there are in the community.

This is very much turning into a “I know a guy” conversation that isn’t conducive to any one.
Me as a new guy who hears stories from my seniors, and you as a guy who has not been a SWCC for about 10 years who occasionally chats with some old friends.

It’s obvious to everyone that you hated your experience as SWCC. I actually very much enjoy my job yet I still reiterate in every post that I want to be SF. You don’t need to get aggressive just because I have anything good to say at all about the community. You hated it. I get it. I don’t.