Negative Press on Marine Corps

[81FO]

Wondering if anyone has seen the news reports today about inappropriate internet postings of female Marines on a facebook page... won't go into details of what is out there those interested can do their own search. I should point out I'm not big on social sights like facebook, myspace, etc... I stick to discussion forums like ShadowSpear,ExpeditionPortal, etc... Although I do have an LinkedIn account for business purposes. I only mention my internet use or lack there of, because the news report about the fb page is a surprise. It amazes me how ignorant people can be. Honestly how many "secrets" have been found out and personal character assasination has been committed by people using social media sites?! When will people learn!

The reason for this thread is in response to something I saw on a cable news network. Link is below--

Former Marine: Photo scandal shouldn't surprise leadership

For those who are familiar with "not-in-my-marine-corps" and its founder Erin Kirk-Como, stuff like this only feeds the false narrative IMO, that she spews claiming that the Marine Corps' method for producing Warriors is wrong.

I know this will brand me as a sexist, but I am sick of the BS idea being pushed that men and women are the same. Fact is they are not! That does not mean women cannot do what men do. I am on board with the idea of equality for women. My disgust is in the continued barrage to wipe away gender in society!

FACT: (in regards to mammals)

MALES IMPREGNATE FEMALES, FEMALES THROUGH PREGNANCY CARRY OFFSPRING AND GIVE BIRTH TO SAID OFFSPRING! MALES CANNOT GET PREGNANT OR GIVE BIRTH!!!

Therefore, heterosexual males are hardwired to copulate with females period!

So until someone figures out a way to make humans Asexual, I will keep my sexist view point that Males (Men) & Females (Women) are different.

As for treating females with respect that should be addressed, but coed boot camp is not the answer. IMO making Marine Corps boot camp coed is a fail for a myriad of reasons, am I wrong?

For clarity I should point out that I do not support or condone what was being done on the web-sites mentioned in the news reports. Simply put it is UNSAT!

 

[TLDR20]

Typing in all caps is a great way to get your point across via the written medium.

As to the point, what was happening to these female Marines is unsat, like you pointed out.

As to some of your other highly nuanced and obviously researched points, I would say that you confuse biological sex and gender. The words aren't interchangeable.

Gender refers to social and cultural differences, rather than biological differences.

Your post seems more like a rant than an attempt at discourse though.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

It would take way too long to write out and fully explain my thoughts.

In a nutshell I think the guys are tools for creating a site that does this. As a Marine it does not bother me in anyway that Marines are involved.

Service members are not saints, there are good and bad; no different that cops/doctors/priests. A few bad apples does not spoil the pot (or however that goes).

This type of thing is so common that it is really a non-story to me.

 

[TLDR20]

It would take way too long to write out and fully explain my thoughts.

In a nutshell I think the guys are tools for creating a site that does this. As a Marine it does not bother me in anyway that Marines are involved.

Service members are not saints, there are good and bad; no different that cops/doctors/priests. A few bad apples does not spoil the pot (or however that goes).

This type of thing is so common that it is really a non-story to me.

I actually disagree. While not ok, it is one thing to share with your boys in the barracks, entirely another to share it on the internet.

 

[Il Duce]

I actually disagree. While not ok, it is one thing to share with your boys in the barracks, entirely another to share it on the internet.

I think the scope of this is also significant - though not surprising. 30k current and former Marines (isn't the corps only like 300k active?) is a pretty sizeable chunk of a small organization.

In some ways I think the USMC is very lucky this story broke like this in the current era - GEN(R) Mattis as SECDEF and the Trump administration enthusiastic 'non-PC' warriors mean the political consequences of this will be minimal IMO.

 

[81FO]

Typing in all caps is a great way to get your point across via the written medium.

As to the point, what was happening to these female Marines is unsafe, like you pointed out.

As to some of your other highly nuanced and obviously researched points, I would say that you confuse biological sex and gender. The words aren't interchangeable.

Gender refers to social and cultural differences, rather than biological differences.

Your post seems more like a rant than an attempt at discourse though.

Point taken. I will refrain from using all caps in future posts.
My reference or equating of gender and sex was in regards to nature / primal instinct. Yes gender is a "social" moniker, but "gender neutral" is social engineering of the worst sort.

In hind sight I agree it is a rant, but my question still stands, am I wrong in thinking that coed boot camp will not have a positive affect?

 

[TLDR20]

Point taken. I will refrain from using all caps in future posts.
My reference or equating of gender and sex was in regards to nature / primal instinct. Yes gender is a "social" moniker, but "gender neutral" is social engineering of the worst sort.

In hind sight I agree it is a rant, but my question still stands, am I wrong in thinking coed boot camp will not a positive affect?

Every other service has had coed boot camps for like 20+ years...

 

[81FO]

I think the scope of this is also significant - though not surprising. 30k current and former Marines (isn't the corps only like 300k active?) is a pretty sizeable chunk of a small organization.

In some ways I think the USMC is very lucky this story broke like this in the current era - GEN(R) Mattis as SECDEF and the Trump administration enthusiastic 'non-PC' warriors mean the political consequences of this will be minimal IMO.

Your assesment has merit, still there should be reprisals and the Corps needs to stay ahead of this.

 

[Lefty375]

Point taken. I will refrain from using all caps in future posts.
My reference or equating of gender and sex was in regards to nature / primal instinct. Yes gender is a "social" moniker, but "gender neutral" is social engineering of the worst sort.

In hind sight I agree it is a rant, but my question still stands, am I wrong in thinking that coed boot camp will not have a positive affect?

I'm just not sure how a co-ed boot camp makes a Marine/Soldier a worse warrior, which is where you lose me. If you could explain the adverse effects of integrating basic training, then maybe I would have the same view as you. As I see it now, the battlefield is a complicated place with many different nations/genders operating on it. Those who aspire to be warriors need to learn to perform on the 21st-century battlefield.

Adapt or die.

 

[81FO]

Every other service has had coed boot camps for like 20+ years...

I am aware of that.

It was found that there are other anonymous sites being used by other US military branches essentially doing the same thing. Which tells me coed boot camp, in reference to elevating respect for females, is not working.

I don't want to get into a pissing contest on what boot camp is the toughest... Marine Corps boot camp has too much going on and I feel mixing ypung men & women together in that setting will not have the intended outcome.

 

[81FO]

I'm just not sure how a co-ed boot camp makes a Marine/Soldier a worse warrior, which is where you lose me. If you could explain the adverse effects of integrating basic training, then maybe I would have the same view as you. As I see it now, the battlefield is a complicated place with many different nations/genders operating on it. Those who aspire to be warriors need to learn to perform on the 21st-century battlefield.

Adapt or die.

The negative is that the majority of recruits are teenagers, in regards to maturity, and are inevatibly going to screw up. No pun intended. Moreover, my view is that it is not optimal when standards are not equal. If the standards are equal then I see no issue with integration.
Plainly put, when the female recruit standard is less than what is required for the male recruit it unfortunately creates a bias.

 

[Il Duce]

Your assesment has merit, still there should be reprisals and the Corps needs to stay ahead of this.

Reprisals? I think you might mean consequences.

 

[Ranger Psych]

This is not a result of coed boot camp. It is a result of females allowing photography of themselves, and then either self release or release by the individual shooting the shots.

There's also minimal proof that half the imagery even is of actual servicemembers. Many women enjoy playing dressup/dressdown in their partners uniform.

Sad to say, but it's not like any of the photos I saw were in any manner surreptitiously taken. Eye contact and smiling at and/or holding the camera doing mirror selfies is a clear image of who started the mess. Whoever shared them into the wild is fucked up, but w/e.

 

[81FO]

Reprisals? I think you might mean consequences.

Yes, you're right. Thank you for the correction.

 

[Lefty375]

The negative is that the majority of recruits are teenagers, in regards to maturity, and are inevatibly going to screw up. No pun intended. Moreover, my view is that it is not optimal when standards are not equal. If the standards are equal then I see no issue with integration.
Plainly put, when the female recruit standard is less than what is required for the male recruit it unfortunately creates a bias.

I don't think the majority of the adults joining the service (at 18) believe that sharing nude photographs on the internet is morally permissible. If they do, they shouldn't join a professional fighting force. Instead, I would recommend these young members get some training in how to be a civil human being.

I agree with the standards being equal. I have no issues with that...

 

[81FO]

This is not a result of coed boot camp. It is a result of females allowing photography of themselves, and then either self release or release by the individual shooting the shots.

There's also minimal proof that half the imagery even is of actual servicemembers. Many women enjoy playing dressup/dressdown in their partners uniform.

Sad to say, but it's not like any of the photos I saw were in any manner surreptitiously taken. Eye contact and smiling at and/or holding the camera doing mirror selfies is a clear image of who started the mess. Whoever shared them into the wild is fucked up, but w/e.

I have not seen the photos, seen the site in question so I am ignorant in that regard.

Your obsurvation is interesting, perhaps the claim by "not-in-my-marine-corps" founder is exaggerated.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I actually disagree. While not ok, it is one thing to share with your boys in the barracks, entirely another to share it on the internet.

The amount of polaroids being passed around in my day was pretty unbelievable. 03-04'ish there was a female Army MP who did a shit load of digital nude pics. That shit hit the internet and spread like a wildfire. That was probably one of the first times in my life I realized how powerful the internet can be.

 

[TLDR20]

This is not a result of coed boot camp. It is a result of females allowing photography of themselves, and then either self release or release by the individual shooting the shots.

There's also minimal proof that half the imagery even is of actual servicemembers. Many women enjoy playing dressup/dressdown in their partners uniform.

Sad to say, but it's not like any of the photos I saw were in any manner surreptitiously taken. Eye contact and smiling at and/or holding the camera doing mirror selfies is a clear image of who started the mess. Whoever shared them into the wild is fucked up, but w/e.

If today a girl shares a Snapchat with a dude or vice versa I don't think that is that weird. Sharing it online is fucking predatory though IMO.

 

[Ranger Psych]

I don't think the majority of the adults joining the service (at 18) believe that sharing nude photographs on the internet is morally permissible. If they do, they shouldn't join a professional fighting force. Instead, I would recommend these young members get some training in how to be a civil human being.

I agree with the standards being equal. I have no issues with that...

If today a girl shares a Snapchat with a dude or vice versa I don't think that is that weird. Sharing it online is fucking predatory though IMO.

Tossing a partner some visual entertainment is glorious.

Sharing what you get in confidence, at all, is jacked up. Pure and simple. Going full UNCLASS NO DIST RESTRICTION on that shit via the web should result in having your hands fed into a snowblower.

 

[Grunt]

At its basest level, I hate the lack of respect for each other's personal privacy. Just because someone provides a photograph of themselves to someone in particular, it isn't providing "blanket consent" to send it to the world via the WWW.