Negative Press on Marine Corps

[Il Duce]

On a serious note, I'm surprised it took this long for the "Marines United" story to break. Nude selfies of service members spread like wildfire around the time of OEF/OIF. You can hold all the mandatory briefing sessions you want, but ultimately you're fighting against a cultural acceptance (by males and females) that it's OK to create and distribute these kinds of images, and it's not really a big deal whether you consented to their release or not. I don't really have an answer to this except to teach kids of what happens when they're indiscriminate with who they share their naughty bits with.

I don't think the reaction by leaders is about sharing nude pictures, or pictures of hot women in general - though that's not in the best taste/judgment on a site with linkages to military service.

It's about the fact current/former Marines were stalking, posting about, threatening/cajoling/cat-calling/making derogatory statements about other Marines and servicemembers. Meanwhile other Marines (and others) were either actively cheering them on, or passively consuming the content and not saying shit.

If you're the leader of any organization and find out your troops are engaged in victimizing their fellow troops - or see it being done and aren't doing anything about it - that's going to disturb you. If it's in relation to something like sexual harassment or sexual assault - where the services have invested massive resources in training and making the case those aren't endemic to service values - you've got a huge problem.

I think everyone is entitled to their personal views. In your heart you can be as racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, or whatever other prejudice you want to have. But, as a leader in the armed services you have the responsibility to care for, protect, and defend your fellow servicemembers period. As a leader I would question the ability of someone to serve if they engage in this type of behavior - or stand by while others do.

 

[81FO]

Quick anecdote from last night that highlights my eventual point.

So, I'm on a consulting business trip to Germany and last night I'm sitting in a hotel bar with a few classmates. I am an enlisted infantry Marine veteran, and there are three other classmates with me - one is an Army infantry officer and one is a full time mba who we know and like very much. The third person is a part time MBA who I feel. and the other two feel, is a real turd burglar. Just to fuck with him, I introduce myself as my army friend and give his background as my own, and he does the same with me. We keep throwing digs at eachother, basically using this guy as a medium to give eachother shit as friends. He gets up to take a piss, and this guy says

"Man, those Marines are real animals."

Of course I goad him on, making him talk all the shit he feels about Marines to me, the actual Marine ( My other friend was just dying laughing at all of this). He proceeds to basically say the Marine Corps is terrifying, that we are no better than caged animals, that we should be psych evaled upon return to civilian life, that the Army should just absorb the Marine Corps anyway, and that he thinks Marines are basically just dumb killing machines that serve the corporate greed of America.

Who cares? I am conflicted about women in combat Arms because on one hand, I don't think when life if on the line regularly, that fair and equal is ever a consideration. On the other hand, I feel that anyone who wants to hump a 240 and spray the enemy with outbound fire should be available to do so. I like the idea of separate battalions, where a 100 pound woman can realistically carry another 100 pound woman off the battlefield, and that logistical considerations would be consistent. that's a hard sell, and no one likes that option publicly because for some reason it's more PC to either hate women in the infantry than it is to advocate for segregation.

Whatever. You're talking about boot camp and honestly, that's like...the least of anyone's concern. Perhaps it's a reserve thing, but everyone I know who is a reservist cares about the boot camp thing, whereas most active duty feel nothing one way or a other about boot camp. As one of my reservist friends stated to me once (in my words) "Boot camp and SOI are usually all we have, so it's all we know"

I don't give a shit about coed boot camp, what I care about is a fighting force that's known for being brutal and can back that up with brutality. This scandal hurts both. Women in the rack next to men at boot camp does not. Women in the fighting hole next to a man might, but no one here knows - we only staple our perspectives onto the idea and call it a fact. Hell, It worked for the mobile infantry and they conquered some of the ugliest bug planets in the universe.

JohnBender, Thank you for your reply. I concede your point, but I think you miss interpreted my original post. Understandable when taking into account the brevity of my post, it is the nature of discussion in an internet forum. My focus on the integration of women recruits into the ranks of male recruits is solely due to the founder of “not-in-my-marine-corps” asserting that the lack there of, is the reason for, as Teufel refuted, “a symptom of a larger Marine Corps misogynistic culture”. I due take issue with someone lobbying for change based on a political agenda to justify changing something for the sake of change. It is an ideology that has taken root and not logic. If the solution were that simple why is it still an issue in the Big Army? The other branches were found dealing in the same Crap!

I will counter your assessment that integrating boot camp doesn’t matter, it does as much if not more than MCT/SOI/SOI-E Combat Hunter training. Boot camp is the INDOC for all Marines; moreover, you don’t earn the title until you complete those phases. In fact you kinda make my point for me in your post when you write of the perception associated with Marines as a fighting force- in your words “The point here is, people think Marines are animals as it stands.” I remind you Teufel Hunden was a moniker earned in WWI, and was the result of, IMO from training which started at boot camp. Sure the other training is viewed to be the “meat & potatoes” being a Marine, but boot camp lays the foundation of which to build the foundation on. I agree that the enigma of potential savagery that could befall battlefield adversaries at the hands of Marines is a force multiplier. All of that is useless if unit apathy is in the tank. My interest in this is strictly in response to the afore mentioned premise… Personally I feel the USMC has, for the most part, been pretty damn good at producing in the immortal words of Lt.Gen. Chesty Puller “Hit hard, hit fast, hit often” Marines. You also stated that gender / sex doesn’t matter “I feel… anyone who wants to hump a 240… should be available to do so.”, I generally agree with that view as long as the Marine is able. By that I mean the Marine male or female has to be Able to adequately meet the required standard, the same standard. As I stated in a previous post to Lefty375 I have no issue with integration so long as the standards are upheld and the “goose” has to do the same as the “gander”. Currently in the Corps the female standard is less than the male standard, that IMO does nothing to engender equality.If there is a hardass female who can meet the same standard as her male peers I say stick a rifle in her hand and Gung Ho!! It is a non-issue we agree, I think?

As for you implying that my concern in this is based on some perceived inadequacy because I served in the USMCR is insulting, despite your intent. Last I checked the training is the same no matter what division.

I am resolute in my assessment that without standards being the same for both sexes the desired outcome is a dream, respect is earned not given.

 

[Gunz]

Administrative and judicial aside, it's my understanding that military members can file lawsuits against other members of the military, and I would expect some of these female Marines to take civil action of some kind.

 

[81FO]

Administrative and judicial aside, it's my understanding that military members can file lawsuits against other members of the military, and I would expect some of these female Marines to take civil action of some kind.

& they should.

 

[CDG]

Pretty good read from Task & Purpose.

The Rise And Fall (And Rise) Of ‘Marines United’

 

[81FO]

Well it has gone beyond "guys" behaving badly to pure Dickheads with sinister intentions, the original fb page was administratively shutdown. So what does the douche bag who started the page do? He creates another page calling it "MU 2.0", then proceeds to transfer the data / media to the new page and taunts those reporting on the issue. Once again the "MU 2.0" page is shutdown, three guesses what happens next? Yeah, other members start a third page and yes call it "MU 3.0".

They need to find the douches & show no mercy. What a waste of organic matter! They win the DICK o' the Year award!!!

 

[ThunderHorse]

So, to be honest, this is shit, but also hilarious in a poor sort of way: Russians may now control the trove of photos showing naked U.S. troops