Negative Press on Marine Corps
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TLDR20
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I disagree. Social media allows for a shitload of good.
Just seeing your brothers either getting out and doing good, or other buddies staying in and doing good is a huge morale booster. Things like OAF are clutch. Maybe it is generational, but I think social media is great for keeping in touch...
I can understand your view, yet it comes down to being overly permissive. Possibly a regulation that would limit use. You would think a firm understanding of PERSEC would mitigate sharing compromising info / pics.
It's wrong and those responsible will be investigated and punished. This is being addressed at all levels in the Marine Corps. The entire service should not be judged on the actions of a few.
SpongeBob*24
Verified Military
You're right; my post was neither well-reasoned nor realistic. I've benefited from the Internet in many ways, and in particular in keeping in touch with friends. Blaming social media for the crap that ends up on it is like blaming the gun not the idiot who pulls the trigger. And yet it can come back to bite you in the ass as so many find out.
TLDR20
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Very true! It's ultimately about personal accountability and holding the violators responsible for their actions -- individually and consistently.
But there just shit heads
I bet Congress will use this incident as ammunition against the Marine Corps to lower standards at IOC and accelerate gender integration in the infantry and MARSOC. Both those fields are currently open to women but they aren't filling slots fast enough for Congress. Have you seen what life is like for a young Marine in the infantry? Lots of ruck marches, buddy rushes, digging fighting holes, and generally being cold, wet, hungry and mistreated. Many women wanted to attend the school of infantry to prove they could do it. Considerably less want to actually do it for a living.
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Sir,
There is a problem in our beloved Marine Corps when it comes to women Marines. Young enlisted females learn very quickly that their sexuality (even simple flirting) will get them far, to include better duties, easier jobs in the shop, meritorious promotions, less harassment in formation, no real prep for field days, etc...etc...etc.
I was witness to this for four years on a regular basis, (1989 to 1993) and some of my brothers who stayed in say that little has changed. One of the WM's I served with made it to E8 and told me she spent much of her time counseling young female Marines to break the chain.
Bottom line there is a genuine feeling of resentment and envy many male Marines have when it comes to WM's. The males watch the females skate thru the Corps and there is nothing they can do about it. There is no one to complain to, you just deal with it. I am not at all surprised that pics like these were uploaded. Marines (retired and a few still active) who I have talked to about this are not surprised either.
It is impossible for me to believe that the officer ranks are not aware of the interactions between young females and senior Marines, and until NCO's (and Staff NCO's for that matter) stop playing games with the females who want to play with them, the culture will likely not change.
Not surprising, there are few women coming forward to talk with NCIS. I am guessing because most of them don't even know they are on the board, and because they don't want anything to do with being singled out if they are still active.
I am not saying I agree with the file sharing, but I understand why some Marines may not view their female comrades with the level of respect the Corps likes to pretend we all have for each other.
From the Commendant -
Top Marine asks women to 'trust us' in nude-photo inquiry
From NCIS (on Twitter of all places)
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You can go far in the military--and in life--by simply not being a dick. "Revenge porn" is a dick move, talking shit about fellow service members is a dick move, and harassing women that you found out about through revenge porn and people talking shit about them is a TOTAL dick move.
I think part of the problem is that bad apples are sometimes the loudest voices in the veteran community online. I have seen guys with a BCD on their record lecture active duty Marines on how great the Corps was, "back in the day." Junior Service members look up to their seniors and social media has enabled them to connect with "mentors" who steer them in the wrong direction with their words, example and actions. Shadowspear is a positive example of online mentorship because it is moderated and the members self-police to uphold a culture of professionalism and mutual respect for all members. I've heard that Marines United did many positive things for numerous Marines, but ultimately they failed their 30,000 members through their tacit approval of immoral activities and will always be remembered for their misconduct, not their good deeds.
I've seen it happen. I've also seen female Marines get out of deployment by getting pregnant. Those are leadership problems and the fault lies with the command, not the individual. Guys would do the same things if they could. I've seen guys fake injuries, go U/A, etc to get out of work.
I think the 'bad apple' theory is problematic for leaders in organizations like ours. It's always tempting to want to see the best in the people that make up our organizations - and we like the idea we're a part of the inherently 'good' people who would never engage in immoral conduct. But, I think history and organizational dynamics tell a different and disturbing story - that most people are capable of doing really shitty stuff in groups that have normalized that behavior, by design or by default. We want LT Calley to be a lone sociopath, leading a unit of inexperienced weirdos that got out of hand. We want to avoid the truth he was one leader amongst many in an experienced, well-trained (for the period) unit, getting caught doing something they had done before on a smaller scale. To me, that's one of the critical pieces in leader training about the law of war, EO/SHARP/EEO, hazing, and all the rest - that you have to stand in between your men and the darker things in human nature sometimes.
I agree with you on your point on social media. In a way it's like the (I think USMC principle adopted by the wider joint force) 'strategic corporal' in a different context. The ability to influence - and be heard - through social media vastly outweighs what one can accomplish in other forums and the structure of accomplishment is much different. I think the difference is in the social aspect - the influence and voice is amplified as a mechanism of having a large number of connections. It's like the E-4 mafia getting the chance to go global.
Teufel, would appreciate your view / input on the "recommendation" from "not-in-my-marine-corps" to integrate or coed Marine Corps boot camp. The premise of it is male Marines if training side by side with female Marines, males will inevitably gain respect for female Marines.
I've stated previuosly in the thread that integration will do nothing to change the culture if standards are not equal for male & female recruits. They were not when I went through the summer of '90...
I don't think integrating boot camp will change anything other than male entry level standards. This Facebook scandal is not a symptom of a larger Marine Corps misogynistic culture that can be fixed by integrating boot camp but rather the active actions of a few miscreants in a group with 30,000 members who passively participated in these misdeeds through their inaction.
I would also submit that this problem likely extends well outside of the Marine Corps and a Facebook group and likely had tendrils reaching into every corner of the DOD.
