Kraut783
SOF Support
Did POTUS really say the should use water drops from aerial tankers? C’mon.....
Notre Dame is burning down
- Thread starter Rapid
- Start date
- Accidents during renovations happen all of the time.
- Church vandalism in Europe is out of control.
- Of course Muslims will cheer the loss of the church. It isn't like they've claimed "victories" in the GWOT when they had nothing to do with the circumstances.
- Wanna fuel a conspiracy theory? Announcing your prelim theories as facts is a good way to advance the notion.
- There's so much emotion tied up in the loss of this priceless work, I don't see how we can trust (see above) the initial reports. Besides, aren't they usually inaccurate?
- We're kidding ourselves if we think politics won't rear its ugly head. Also, see above.
Ima sit this one out and wait for more info. Maybe some of y'all should too.
- Church vandalism in Europe is out of control.
- Of course Muslims will cheer the loss of the church. It isn't like they've claimed "victories" in the GWOT when they had nothing to do with the circumstances.
- Wanna fuel a conspiracy theory? Announcing your prelim theories as facts is a good way to advance the notion.
- There's so much emotion tied up in the loss of this priceless work, I don't see how we can trust (see above) the initial reports. Besides, aren't they usually inaccurate?
- We're kidding ourselves if we think politics won't rear its ugly head. Also, see above.
Ima sit this one out and wait for more info. Maybe some of y'all should too.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
This just sucks.
Wet stuff on red stuff works well, no matter the delivery mechanism, bulk has an effect all it's own. Canada's done aerial water drops on major vehicular fires. If you can't attack from the interior working towards the seat of the fire on a large scene, master streams can only penetrate so far before they don't have a measurable effect...
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- Jul 29, 2008
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This thread went from zero to "MUSLIMS!" pretty quickly.
Nonsense.
Nonsense.
policemedic
Verified SWAT
Time will tell.
There is some genuine hate for the Catholic Church in our neck of the woods, with predatory behaviour and cover up of same. There's not a lot of sympathy in some circles for this.
While I, personally, am leaning towards “construction accident,” it really would not surprise me if anyone went balls out against the Catholic Church. Not necessarily of the Muslim faith, but there’s lots of anti-papists out there.
That said, I’m still leaning towards accident related to renovations. You hear that, everyone????? AAAAAA-CCI-DEEEEEENT.
SPELL IT OUT, YOU WANKERS
That said, I’m still leaning towards accident related to renovations. You hear that, everyone????? AAAAAA-CCI-DEEEEEENT.
SPELL IT OUT, YOU WANKERS
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
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- 1,068
First of all, the Paris banlieues are filled with resentful Islamic colonists, who commit arson like it's their favourite pastime. On New Year's Eve alone, French authorities considered it a "success" that only 1,000 cars were torched in Paris -- with a straight face.
Secondly, destroying non-Islamic places of worship is something Muslims have been doing consistently for 1400 years starting with Muhammad himself.
Thirdly, France is experiencing a spate of vandalism against churches. Less than a week ago, another church was set fire to in Paris. The media would absolutely twist the news about something this provocative and potentially incendiary (no pun intended).
So, those three elements make it a completely reasonable explanation to consider. I never claimed to have all the facts -- unlike the mainstream news outlets, though they do it the other way round.
Secondly, destroying non-Islamic places of worship is something Muslims have been doing consistently for 1400 years starting with Muhammad himself.
Thirdly, France is experiencing a spate of vandalism against churches. Less than a week ago, another church was set fire to in Paris. The media would absolutely twist the news about something this provocative and potentially incendiary (no pun intended).
So, those three elements make it a completely reasonable explanation to consider. I never claimed to have all the facts -- unlike the mainstream news outlets, though they do it the other way round.
Really? It took 15 seconds of me turning on the TV for the bubbleheaded bleach blond to say all these theories. It only took you about 25 post to try and shame the board because we used the word Muslim. That’s Nonsense because it is a plausible theory.
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Tell me why it is nonsense. Nonsense would make me believe that it is an implausible theory, and my understanding of what is happening in Europe right now makes me believe this is actually a very plausible theory.
My wife is there right now, she was there earlier in the day. I think it is not nonsense to think, but my first thought was, "Roof fire, wood scaffold, I will put a lot of money on a fire started by a welder."
FWIW local stations and specialists who went in this morning are saying that they are hopeful that due to the fire starting on the top, that the bottom of the church and the front have more salvageable despite the loss of the spire.
And in that case it's completely natural, given the jihadist track record, to openly consider the possibility of terrorism when an event of this magnitude occurs.
We've become so afraid of offending anybody, that even on an open forum comprised mainly of military people, it's bad manners to mention the word "Muslim" in the same sentence with a suspicious catastrophe. I think it's a given that we're all aware that jihadist extremists make up a very small percentage of the Muslim population.
Nevertheless, considering the circumstances, it's also a logical and justifiable speculation and deserves to be part of the conversation.
We welders tend to start a lot of fire's, so I will say that sure is possible. Not sure why a welder would be working off of wood scaffold, but there is all types of stuff on roofs that are welded these days.
I'll only say that if this fire was a accident, a lot of people fucked up. No way a fire should spread like that from an accidental fire. Sparks, slag, overly hot electrodes, you would see and smell that quickly, and who ever is helping should have put it out easy enough with a fire extinguisher.
The way that roof was engulfed, I've got my bet on arson through an accelereant of some sort. But I'm not an expert by any means and doing nothing but throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.
I do find the timing and scale to be suspect, especially with the knowledge of past attacks on churches in France and other parts of Europe.
Makes a lot of sense and thanks for the explanation, very helpful since that is not my area of knowledge. My thoughts were due to knowing there is a lot of unskilled migrant labor in that workforce in Europe and what jobs start, or have potential to start roof fires that we see here. Lower the common denominator, increase the amount of corners cut, tack on a profession, and also throw shit to see what sticks is all I did. I have no fire knowledge, but I would wonder since the scaffold was wood, if that was enough to spread things quickly?
Devildoc
Verified Military
President of French scientific council with the (French) Heritage Institute says years of inattention and neglect set up perfect storm:
Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims
Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims
Not as quickly as it did IMO, the only thing I've seen spread really fast from "welder caused" fires, have been dry grass in high winds. Not to say that it couldn't happen, just that I haven't seen it.
If I am in a building, I have safety steps I have to take. Proper ventilation, arc shields and drapes to protect people's eyes and fire retardant drop tarps. Of course that is not always possible and sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. But due to the likely hood of accidental fires, any welder worth his salt is going to take a lot of extra steps to prevent starting a fire and have significant amount of ability to put one out. At the end of the day, it's our butt on the line for any and all damages.
Welding is not a general labor type job. Yes any idiot can learn it, but there are pretty harsh testing standards throughout the world, and unlike most other careers, you test at every job you start. Even with current certs, most general contractors will require a specific test per the code that the engineer requires on the prints, especially in structural, oil and gas and anything overhead.
Kraut783
SOF Support
True, but the weight from aerial tankers would destroy the structure like that. Now, helos with the water drops I can see, but aerial tankers carry anywhere from 12,000 gallons to 19,600 gallons. I think he was just making an uninformed, or flippant, remark.
Florida173
SOF Support
I don't see why this is newsworthy or why anyone could possibly care. It's arguing semantics with other people that probably don't care except to expose him as ignorant.
I wouldn't know the difference between an aerial tanker and a helo carrying a tank in the world of aerial firefighting.. but it led me to the wiki page
Aerial firefighting - Wikipedia
Brill
SOF Support
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