Official Ukraine/Georgian Thread

[JBS]

Do you know when we will find ourselves in a new cold war?

When we do nothing over the next decade as Putin re-assimilates all the break-away republics and we do nothing.

 

[JBS]

This is a good point. We've been so eager to jump at the opportunity to sign treaties and agreements in the past- and look at how ridiculous the terms are that we agree to.

In the case of Ukraine, we want a former Soviet country to surrender its nukes to its former oppressor in exchange for our protection. This is racketeering without a payout. We created a necessity for protection, then we fulfilled it- terrible.

Russia was also a signatory.

And don't you want to encourage nations to give up loose nukes/nuclear ambitions? Why should they? So they can be rewarded for that like Gaddafi and Ukraine?


EDITED TO ADD: When a nation relies upon its alliances with the United States for protection and NOT nuclear weapons, we should unconditionally reward that, and demonstrate to the rest of the world that they can trust the global community and not nuclear weapons for security. It's a huge step backwards. Why would Kim Jong Un give up nukes when he saw that Gaddafi got a bayonet in the rectum for his efforts? The Ukraine is just another in a long line of US inconsistencies to step up when we need to.

 

[Etype]

Russia was also a signatory.

And don't you want to encourage nations to give up loose nukes/nuclear ambitions?

Russia did sign it, but as I previously stated- Crimea was an autonomous region when the treaty was signed, and was them reasimilated by Ukraine when the Ukrainian gov't became unhappy with the direction it was going.

I don't necessarily want to encourage nations to give up nukes or nuclear ambitions. That's way to vague of a statement/policy for to subscribe to.

 

[JBS]

Russia did sign it, but as I previously stated- Crimea was an autonomous region when the treaty was signed, and was them reasimilated by Ukraine when the Ukrainian gov't became unhappy with the direction it was going.

I don't necessarily want to encourage nations to give up nukes or nuclear ambitions. That's way to vague of a statement/policy for to subscribe to.

I understand your position, I just probably don't agree. Denuclearization of the world is a good- albeit probably unattainable- goal. It's not even a goal, just a wish, really, and probably not realistic. Still, in principle, less nukes is a good thing.

Regardless, I don't think it matters. Putin is probably going to continue. Check out this excellent article in BBC:

The world was stunned when Russia invaded Crimea, but should it have been? Author and journalist Oliver Bullough says President Vladimir Putin never kept secret his intention to restore Russian power...

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26769481

 

[pardus]

Regardless, I don't think it matters. Putin is probably going to continue. Check out this excellent article in BBC:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26769481

That was a very interesting article!

 

[Chopstick]

I will just leave this right here. :wall:

 

[pardus]

I will just leave this right here. :wall:

WTF is that?

 

[Chopstick]

That is our State Department Spokeswoman, Jen Psaki's answer to Russia massing troops to invade Ukraine. That will show 'em!

 

[Queeg]

Pfft, hashtags....Putin has no use for electronic means of communications. He's old school KGB so he's pretty much a SME on how to crack that shit.

 

[pardus]

That is our State Department Spokeswoman, Jen Psaki's answer to Russia massing troops to invade Ukraine. That will show 'em!

Wow... Maybe the State Dept will make a Kony Putin video and everything will be OK!

 

[Etype]

@US_GOV'T, #UKRAINESNOTWORTHWWIII, #ENEERGYINDEPENENCE

 

[CQB]

Update: there's been a bit of a skirmish at Sloviansk with about five KIA, the fact are a bit sketchy ATM.
Here's a bit more analysis:
http://www.economist.com/news/leade...-highbut-it-will-only-get-higher-if-west-does

 

[Chopstick]

US Troops arrived in Poland today.
https://news.yahoo.com/first-troops-land-poland-us-beefs-baltic-presence-155008415.html

"Poland has been there for the United States," US ambassador to Poland Stephen Mull said at the ceremony in accented Polish.

"And today, as the transatlantic community confronts Russia's unacceptable aggression against Poland's neighbour Ukraine, a sovereign and independent state, we have a solemn obligation in the framework of NATO to reassure Poland of our security guarantee."

 

[Chopstick]

http://theaviationist.com/2014/05/02/hinds-shot-down-donetsk/

Things are heating up ......

According to the Ukrainian authorities, two Mil Mi-24 Hind helicopters were shot down by “unknown persons by means of man-portable air defense system (PZRK)” overnight into May 2.

As a result two servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed forces died and several were injured.

Furthermore, one Mi-8 Hip helicopter of Army Aviation, Ukrainian Armed Forces, was damaged by small arms fire.

 

[RackMaster]

That is not good at all.

 

[CQB]

Some more...

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA400LI20140502?irpc=932

A report from Le Monde with film regarding a fire in Odessa with 31 dead. There's a bit on the helo as well but it's not clear.
http://mobile.lemonde.fr/europe/art...ents-affrontements-a-odessa_4410927_3214.html

 

[JBS]

We should have been involved. World Wars start like this. Our involvement would have caused Putin to back off.

 

[Marine0311]

We should have been involved. World Wars start like this. Our involvement would have caused Putin to back off.

We have been involved enough since 9.11

 

[Brill]

We should have been involved. World Wars start like this. Our involvement would have caused Putin to back off.

Putin does not fear Obama.

 

[CQB]

We should have been involved. World Wars start like this. Our involvement would have caused Putin to back off.

If any of the Baltic States become involved, as they're members of NATO, things may change.