Orlando shooting

Etype said:
The protocol of containment has proven to be a failed venture over and over again with active shooters.

I just don't know what a cop could be thinking knowing that people are being killed, yet waiting.
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That is not what I said. Containment is only done if the shooter is barricaded and not active. If the shooter is still actively shooting, then they will engage. No offense, but if you were not there then you should not pass judgement yet. I seriously doubt the units arriving on scene went to cover and did not work towards taking out the active shooter.
 
ke4gde said:
That is not what I said. Containment is only done if the shooter is barricaded and not active. If the shooter is still actively shooting, then they will engage. No offense, but if you were not there then you should not pass judgement yet. I seriously doubt the units arriving on scene went to cover and did not work towards taking out the active shooter.
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The old don't make judgment if you weren't there argument, blah.

eta-
Fox just released scanner audio of an officer giving the command to take, "a position of cover, if I can still see your face, you're not in a position of cover."

Basically saying don't maintain SA, bury your head in the sand and wait.
 
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Etype said:
The old don't make judgment if you weren't there argument, blah.

eta-
Fox just released scanner audio of an officer giving the command to take, "a position of cover, if I can still see your face, you're not in a position of cover."

Basically saying don't maintain SA, bury your head in the sand and wait.
Click to expand...

Sounds like they need remedial practice with reacting to near ambush.
 
Etype said:
The old don't make judgment if you weren't there argument, blah.

eta-
Fox just released scanner audio of an officer giving the command to take, "a position of cover, if I can still see your face, you're not in a position of cover."

Basically saying don't maintain SA, bury your head in the sand and wait.
Click to expand...
Fox is about as reliable as MSNBC. The local Fox affiliate played the audio from the off duty officer who was engaging the shooter. Military and law enforcement engagement tactics are night and day.

Look, I understand you're pissed at what happened. We all are, but don't spout off about things you know nothing about yet. All I am trying to do is provide a perspective of what the training and protocols dictate in this state for this scenario. If the IC on the scene gave the call to take cover, then there must have been a reason. If it was a bad call he will pay for it. However, the information released so far indicates that the off duty officer on scene and the initial responding officers were actively engaged in combat. The first supervisor to arrive on scene was a SWAT officer and a LT. Again, this information is from local news stations that are on the ground and not a national news service.

Almost none of the officers I have worked with in the past, or the training given in this state, is geared towards waiting while people are dying. Quite frankly, it is an insult to insinuate such when the puzzle is still incomplete.
 
We don't know what the Orlando PD policy is for an active shooter, but the game changer is when it became a hostage situation. If that is in fact what happened.

Sounds like the off duty LEO fired on the suspect in response to an active shooter, and the suspect lit him up heavy and retreated back inside, so the officer on scene probably decided "we need everybody". From there it probably devolved into who is in charge, how many people do we have and where, how many armed suspects and how many hostages, etc. It doesn't take 3 hours to come up with armored vehicles and a couple of tac-teams. My guess, is they were trying to figure out what the hell was going on. All the witnesses were probably drunk and unreliable, leaving them no choice but to proceed with great caution.

I'm sure it will all come out in the wash, and a few lower level officers will get blamed, probably who ever was telling other to take cover. Bottom line, that's a shit sandwich to be dealing with at 0200 hours, probably after working a regular shift. Probably standing there with a pistol an a couple magazines, no rifle or plate carrier in the car, and some asshole lights you up with AK/AR. All while a bunch of feminine dudes are running around screaming help my boyfriend and OMG type shit. Fucking WTF overload!!!

I feel for that cop...
 
Deathy McDeath said:
Homophobia is homophobia no matter who perpetrates it, and murder is murder. Nobody is trying to "justify" anything.
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Homophobia is a bad term as phobia usually means a fear of.
The shooter was filled with hate, and rather than avoid people he hated, he elected to "confront" them and teach them a lesson.
No different than the Muslim shooters in Garland or San Bernardino.

Let's see what Imam Obama has to say.
(Gun control is the solution, unless the shooter is Christian, then tolerance is required)
 
DA SWO said:
Homophobia is a bad term as phobia usually means a fear of.
The shooter was filled with hate, and rather than avoid people he hated, he elected to "confront" them and teach them a lesson.
No different than the Muslim shooters in Garland or San Bernardino.

Let's see what Imam Obama has to say.
(Gun control is the solution, unless the shooter is Christian, then tolerance is required)
Click to expand...

insert perfect opportunity for the newly founded gun control group to speak up
 
DA SWO said:
Homophobia is a bad term as phobia usually means a fear of.
Click to expand...
Hate to be pedantic about dictionary definitions, but "Homophobia" encompases more than simple fear. It's an example a word in the English lexicon evolving beyond its latin roots

Definition of HOMOPHOBIA
  1. : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals
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Regardless, it's the most precise word we have to describe this kind of attitude. Moreso on the topic, this is a terrible act and it pains me to see that we still go through this.
 
Deathy McDeath said:
Regardless, it's the most precise word we have to describe this kind of attitude.
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Ends up being intellectually lazy when we start changing definitions. Possibly in a sense, it still applies as a fear though. They are afraid of what homisexuality would do to their culture. Especially considering the fact that it would give a name to some cultural trappings you find in places like Afghanistan that we would consider homosexual and pedophilia.

Etype said:
Since he decides to tell us what Islam is and what it means, he could be a mufti- The Grand Mufti of America.
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I thought that was NASA's job. Did I misunderstand that?
 
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Florida173 said:
Ends up being intellectually lazy when we start changing definitions. Possibly in a sense, it still applies as a fear though. They are afraid of what homisexuality would do to their culture. Especially considering the fact that it would give a name to some cultural trappings you find in places like Afghanistan that we would consider homosexual and pedophilia.
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Hardly. English is an evolving language, and sometimes words change to fit the cultural milieu. It's just the nature of our language. Is English Changing? | Linguistic Society of America
 

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