pipeline design for conventional forces

B

bit

Unverified
Joined
Jun 30, 2024
Messages
11
Good morning, everyone. I'm a POG getting det's prepped for MEUs and attachment to infantry elements. I want to create a high performing element in my field (like the infantry's unit-managed scout platoon program). What courses should I require the Marines execute? (It's also partially for morale and pride.) I'm thinking requiring mobility (not necessarily insertion) in air, on land, and in water, and requiring advanced skills within their field. I'm also thinking a potentially modular design where the wickets could be done in different ways, where you only need to have done at least 1 of each category to achieve qualification.

. air: airborne/PPG (civilian)

. land: mountain warfare training center formal school (mtn leaders, mtn comm, assault climber, etc.), RSLC, Ranger, A&S, BRC

. water: MCIWS/BRC/A&S

. MOS: advanced schools based on upcoming requirements and current team skill gaps

I'd also like to implement a physical screener. Any ideas on that?

I've reached a position where I can arbitrarily implement such a program, and it's something I always wished was available to me. Initial feedback on the idea has been positive with the men.

What qualification buys you is you're automatically the next to deploy/MEU/large exercise, continuously. The only time someone would go without that is if all those that have qualified are already out/unavailable.
 
First of all, I like this idea. But, are you building supporters or operators? If it's the former, get your guys good at doing YOUR jobs, not THEIR jobs.

1) high level of physical fitness
2) extreme level of MOS proficiency

Is the MEU jumping in? If not, why are your guys going to Airborne? Same thing with Ranger, RSLC, etc.

I saw it often in 5th Group and have written about it regularly here on the site: the way you get respect as a support guy is to be physically fit, and be really, really good at your job. The ops types don't need you to be good at theirs.
 
I agree that the most important thing is MOS proficiency. Luckily, I am capable of building a list of schools and OJT that would get them sharp on their MOS because I'm in the same field. What I cannot do as effectively is building a course list to make sure they're proud, fit, not quitters, and can effectively swim and ruck with whatever conventional units they attach to, so I'm looking for ideas. It also has to be attractive enough that people want to do it despite it being more work.
 
I still think you're fixating on the wrong things, but it's your program not mine.

bit said:
I agree that the most important thing is MOS proficiency. Luckily, I am capable of building a list of schools and OJT that would get them sharp on their MOS because I'm in the same field. What I cannot do as effectively is building a course list to make sure they're proud, fit, not quitters, and can effectively swim and ruck with whatever conventional units they attach to, so I'm looking for ideas. It also has to be attractive enough that people want to do it despite it being more work.
Click to expand...
Here you go.

I think the best place to start is with a couple of people you trust who are in the units you support. "Hey, if I were to set up a program for the support guys that embed with you, what would you like it to include?"
 

Attachments

Last edited:
@bit what is your MOS/career fields?

That's important to this conversation. How are you integrated when attached?

For example, Are you commo guys going near/on target as RTOs, or are you cyber guys who will never leave an air conditioned office?
 
Marauder06 said:
I still think you're fixating on the wrong things, but it's your program not mine.


Here you go.

I think the best place to start is with a couple of people you trust who are in the units you support. "Hey, if I were to set up a program for the support guys that embed with you, what would you like it to include?"
Click to expand...
Oh, that's great! Will do. Such feedback would also be useful for justifications to those holding the purse strings. "Hey, Sir, this is what your customer said they needed. This TAD money is how we meet and sustain that requirement."
 
In addition to the fantastic ideas above,

- If it is a school that results in a badge or tab, expect pushback. I would put these towards the bottom of the list.
- Put SERE at the top of your non-MOS desired schools.
- Look into something "uncool" like load planning, HAZMAT or other logistics courses or maintenance courses, especially if you're doing mobility ops.
- Be value added, not a resource drain.

ETA:
- What is the customer doing, what are its needs? MOS', skills, general manpower.
- To the above: mobility, raids, a sustained presence, forced entry...all of these look different for support guys.
- Bring value, not just in what you can do for them, but how much it will cost in training, time, funding, etc.
- Lean packages, less with more. Don't make this a vanity empire w/ bloat.
 
Last edited:
Marauder06 said:
I still think you're fixating on the wrong things, but it's your program not mine.


Here you go.

I think the best place to start is with a couple of people you trust who are in the units you support. "Hey, if I were to set up a program for the support guys that embed with you, what would you like it to include?"
Click to expand...
I haven't read the EAST write-up yet, but I have read your thoughts on the combat skills course for support (I don't remember the acronym) many times, and similar posts of yours as I read the forum over the years, so I know you have a strong opinion and have put a lot of energy and experience into this. I'm excited to go through it, and thank you.
 
AWP, I'll be back to process the input in your post as soon as I can. If you gentlemen would be so kind, I'd love to post a draft pipeline.
 
So as I understand, this is for non-combat MOS dudes being attached to infantry, but not recon/MARSOC?

I understand what the end-state qualification looks like, but what exactly is the end-state qualification? Identifiers in your record, a certain title/name, what?

I echo what my colleagues said above, but just a couple ideas. Proficiency in the MOS, to include as many military and civilian schools that support that MOS (I was a corpsman, so I went to a lot of civilian courses).

Highlight background education that is team-forward or accents multi capability. For example, if your support guy is admin but knows his way around an engine because his father was a mechanic, then have him work with mechanics so that he can do both jobs (not articulating it quite as well as @AWP ).

Regarding your infiltration courses (water, air, etc), I would add scout swimmer. All Marines (and sailors) should be proficient in the water and that is a great, value-added course for a variety of reasons. I also think Bridgeport is pretty low-hanging fruit compared to Ranger school and could be obtainable.
 
As a former AD support guy for operators and current contractor I can echo some of the points above. Primary is being awesome at the job you were hired to do followed closely by the ability to do said job without getting in the way. But there benefits to having a selection process for support personnel; the customer knows you have a baseline of training and the individuals know they earned the right to be there. Sometimes the latter gets overlooked but I think it adds a degree of esprit that is important for such jobs and attracts the kind of people you want. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out.
 
Not a pipeline thing but recommend every young Marine get this mindset:

“Should you be here? Should anyone be here? Should the United States pull out?"

The young lance corporal's answer was straightforward: "Where else should I be? I'm a United States Marine. If anyone must be here, it should be Marines."

That quote was taken from Leading Marines, one of the first MCI’s everyone takes.

1. Be a master at your job and the job below you, and learn the job above of you. This is more important than learning someone else’s MOS/job. The Marine Corps is notorious for throwing you in a billet above your pay grade. Be the Marine everyone comes to when there’s a problem.

2. Embrace the red. Where are your failures? Acknowledge them and train to get better at them.

Why Companies That Embrace "Red Is Good" Get The Best Results

3. What is your commanders intent? Don’t know? Ask. Your commander has an intent for everything you do. Even when it seems nuanced and dumb.

4. You are a grown adult. As are all of your Marines. Don’t coddle them. But treat every one fairly.

5. Don’t be the low man on the totem pole with a secret.

6. We PT for a reason. While you don’t need to be Superman, there is no reason for anyone to score anything less than a high second class PFT/CFT. When shit hits the fan, having the endurance to be in full gear with a combat load is way more important than you think. Take your team on a run someday, say three miles. As you get close to your barracks keep running. Take them for another two miles. Watch them become demoralized and start falling out. It’s a mindset but can absolutely happen in real life. We came off a seven hour foot patrol in Iraq that was supposed to RTB around 1500, only to get a call that an Army platoon was under contact and we had to go respond to them as we were the closest element. We didn’t return to the FOB until the next afternoon. We were all exhausted but if we weren’t physically fit we would have had heat casualties or worse.

7. Take some nutrition and cooking classes. This is as important as working out is. Not all calories are equal. I wish every Marine understood what they needed to put in you them before, during, and after a mission/training/PT whatever for recovery, performance, gains, etc.

8. Your average grunt on a MEU isn’t doing special operations. While the Marine Corps loves to express “we’re a SOC MEU”, the reality is that any special operations will be done by SOCOM. And guess what? There’s nothing wrong with being a conventional force. We didn’t win in Iraq or Afghanistan with SOCOM taking the heavy lift. Think SOCOM could have handled a ground invasion of Iran? No. And I would hope we have leaders in SOCOM that recognize this and are okay with taking a back seat (ok this won’t happen because front seats = money but I digress).
 

Similar threads

F
Marine Reconnaissance Training Company Question
Replies
1
Views
1K
Ooh-Rah
Ooh-Rah
irish greg
Looking for advice
Replies
4
Views
3K
AWP
A
S
Info on ANG CCT pipeline 2020-future
Replies
2
Views
3K
ShltMagnet
S
Kthom111
  • Locked
Recon/ Introducing Myself/ Questions
Replies
2
Views
1K
Polar Bear
Polar Bear
Powercomrad924
.United States Marine Reconnaissance Officer Up-to-Date Information
Replies
8
Views
3K
0699
0699
Back
Top